Ken Fritz - Audiophile Documentary

[Digby]

But the 1960s or '70s version of an article like this - the one that would not mention the personal cost of his pursuit of this system - would also be very much an article of its time. So the implication that the 1960s/70s version - or any version - would be some kind of more truthful, objective, or ideologically untainted baseline that we could use as a reference, is IMHO precisely the logical flaw that's behind the comments I was referring to in my last post

I agree with you regarding truthfulness and such. The word I was searching for earlier, which previously eluded me, was motive.

What is interesting about spending 1 million dollars on hi-fi? It's not really enough to be a news article in Washington Post on its own. What is interesting about a man who neglects his family? They are a dime a dozen. Here we have a story about someone who apparently did both of these things, but what is the motivation (of the author) to put pen to paper.

The Washington Post article was written by an audiophile who is a regular on the Steve Hoffman forums.

This is where it gets interesting. What point has the piece the author written served? It seems to have served two purposes I can see, intended or not.

1. Making a fringe activity (hi-fi) look like the preserve of not only oddballs, but negligent/self-absorbed people
2. Painting a man and his ambition in a bad light

This leads me to ask, what relationship did the author have to Ken Fritz, what benefit was it to him (or hi-fi enthusiasts) to run a piece casting Ken in a bad light? The whole thing smells a little of bad blood to me.

 

[tmtomh]

I agree with you regarding truthfulness and such. The word I was searching for earlier, which previously eluded me, was motive.

What is interesting about spending 1 million dollars on hi-fi? It's not really enough to be a news article in Washington Post on its own. What is interesting about a man who neglects his family? They are a dime a dozen. Here we have a story about someone who apparently did both of these things, but what is the motivation (of the author) to put pen to paper.


This is where it gets interesting. What point has the piece the author written served? It seems to have served two purposes I can see, intended or not.

1. Making a fringe activity (hi-fi) look like the preserve of not only oddballs, but negligent/self-absorbed people
2. Painting a man and his ambition in a bad light

This leads me to ask, what relationship did the author have to Ken Fritz, what benefit was it to him (or hi-fi enthusiasts) to run a piece casting Ken in a bad light? The whole thing smells a little of bad blood to me.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think this "the story's not newsworthy, it must be personal animus/ideological agenda" interpretation is well-supported by the evidence of the article. And that was my original point. It's one story on a single day in a newspaper that publishes 1000s of stories a year - and the guy lived in the local subscription region of the newspaper. And he had by what all accounts might have been the most expensive and most "total" or over-the-top audio system known in the US. If there's anyone who can be claimed to have tried to manufacture the newsworthiness of this, it's Fritz himself and/or his family members who made and promoted the original video. Regardless, it's obviously worthy of a single feature/human-interest story, and I would again argue that the piece is far more balanced and nuanced than you and other critics of the story are claiming. I would also argue that you have not come close to making the case that pointing out the familial issues involved with this guy and his pursuit is a "cheap shot" or "hatchet job" or in any way salacious, inappropriate, or sensationalistic.

 

[Axo1989]

I agree with you regarding truthfulness and such. The word I was searching for earlier, which previously eluded me, was motive.

What is interesting about spending 1 million dollars on hi-fi? It's not really enough to be a news article in Washington Post on its own. What is interesting about a man who neglects his family? They are a dime a dozen. Here we have a story about someone who apparently did both of these things, but what is the motivation (of the author) to put pen to paper.


This is where it gets interesting. What point has the piece the author written served? It seems to have served two purposes I can see, intended or not.

1. Making a fringe activity (hi-fi) look like the preserve of not only oddballs, but negligent/self-absorbed people
2. Painting a man and his ambition in a bad light

This leads me to ask, what relationship did the author have to Ken Fritz, what benefit was it to him (or hi-fi enthusiasts) to run a piece casting Ken in a bad light? The whole thing smells a little of bad blood to me.

You are experiencing the Post article much more negatively than I do for sure. It is obviously less hagiographic than the doco, but it gives a mixed picture of exceptional devotion to equipment vs the implementation effort disproportionate to a normal life, which isn't inaccurate. I don't generalise that to all audio people, I'm not sure everyone reading it would?

 

[mhardy6647]

And he had by what all accounts might have been the most expensive and most "total" or over-the-top audio system known in the US

I am sure that's not the case. I know several folks who, especially if purpose-built (designed and engineered) listening spaces are factored in (especially given the cost of construction in the Northeast), are easily in for seven figures of investment. I know of one or two a couple whose hardware and media investments top seven figures in toto.
It ain't that hard to do with $300k turntables and $200k (each) loudspeakers.

 

[Digby]

Regardless, it's obviously worthy of a single feature/human-interest story, and I would again argue that the piece is far more balanced and nuanced than you and other critics of the story are claiming. I would also argue that you have not come close to making the case that pointing out the familial issues involved with this guy and his pursuit is a "cheap shot" or "hatchet job" or in any way salacious, inappropriate, or sensationalistic.

I dunno, the whole thing strikes me as kind of miserable, as in generating misery for its own sake (see the comments section at WaPo). Probably that sells papers, but I feel like the world has enough true misery, without this kind of unnecessary 'peripheral' misery thrown in.

I wonder if the family knew how the piece would be written before they invited the reporter into their home?

 

[mhardy6647]

Dick Burwen's home hifi (in Massachusetts) is every bit as over the top as was Fritz'.

burwenaudio.com HOME

Actually over-the-top-er.

 

[Axo1989]

Dick Burwen's home hifi (in Massachusetts) is every bit as over the top as was Fritz'.

burwenaudio.com HOME

Actually over-the-top-er.

View attachment 342169

I do like this one more than Fritz's take, especially the reverse trompe-l'oeil of those built-in horn constructions.

Edit: and yes you could certainly spend more than a million if you put your mind to it. What distinguishes Fritz's effort from some more sophisticated setups is the relentless brute force Popular Science meets period aesthetic and sheer doggedness, I reckon.

 

[Digby]

I do like this one more than Fritz's take, especially the reverse trompe-l'oeil of those built-in horn constructions.

It was the three disco balls that really caught your eye, it's fine to admit it!

 

[Axo1989]

It was the three disco balls that really caught your eye, it's fine to admit it!

Haha the disco balls are a crowning touch, for sure. To top off the whole "that can't be real, can it?" impression ...

 

[mhardy6647]

I do like this one more than Fritz's take, especially the reverse trompe-l'oeil of those built-in horn constructions.

I think my logic circuitry just overflowed and shut down as I considered the metaphysical ramifications of the concept of reverse trompe-l'oeil.



You know, like Harry Mudd's androids when confronted with - among other things, the Epimenides Paradox.

 

[BlackTalon]

Fun Fact -- the article made the front page of the Sunday edition. So that's not a small thing.

One son got into broadcasting, as that is how the documentary got made a few years back (the son made it). Plus there was a follow-up in printed form.

Some of the info in the article definitely painted him as a dick, particularly with respect to treatment of his oldest son. And even the oldest daughter was portrayed as having very negative feelings to his actions/ personality.

He ran a fiberglass mold company. So maybe an IEOR or ME if he was an engineer? I was left with the impression that he was a fairly rude businessman, which reinforces that he may have been an engineer

And while he and his spawn poured the floor slab, a contractor "built the walls" -- so he did not build the addition by himself/ just with family.

With respect to the electricity usage, it said he ran a 200 amp service to the room. He also had a fully independent HVAC system used (my first thought when seeing the registers on the ceiling was 'commercial application with minimal air movement noise'.

The DIY speakers are likely a testament to his mold-design ability. Heck of an undertaking, even if he did not really know the acoustic portion of it (the threads here on ASR about DIYing vertical array speakers are eye-opening).

Funny that in the end his listening was all digital off a hard drive. It lacked 'the warmth' of 'good analog'...

 

[kemmler3D]

I think the Fritz story shows why the snake oil-based subjectivist world of audiophilia is actually really harmful.

This is a guy who couldn't easily afford the money he poured into the system. And he also built a system that frankly doesn't make sense. He needed 35KW of Krell amps? Why? Bragging rights? He needed a vinyl-only system for it to be the "world's best"? That's like trying to build the world's fastest car with a steam engine. So many of his design choices were apparently better for audiophool dick-measuring than actual performance.

This is a guy who seems to have uncritically followed at least some of the more-is-more, audio-is-magic dogma of the snake oil crowd.

If the audio world was ruled by objectivism, he could at least have saved a lot of money on the amps. I'm also betting the directivity and power response of those speakers wasn't exactly smooth as glass. Maybe he could have learned something from sites like this, and saved a bit of money and effort, if the information had been more available to him.

Lastly, I also think he must have been a bit of an asshole. The "Y" in DIY is "yourself", not "your whole family". Anyone that conscripts all of their family's time and resources to support their hobby can't be described as anything but selfish, at minimum.

 

[Ron Texas]

Depends on your golf course. Membership fees at some clubs could easily top $1m over a lifetime. Lessons from pros, new clubs every year or two, it adds up quickly. Not deadly unless you are the bishop from Caddy Shack.

There's a bunch of rich folk who have probably paid a million for golf. Initiation fees at the most exclusive clubs are in six figures. It won't get them a news article, but the other things they do might.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think the Fritz story shows why the snake oil-based subjectivist world of audiophilia is actually really harmful.

This is a guy who couldn't easily afford the money he poured into the system. And he also built a system that frankly doesn't make sense. He needed 35KW of Krell amps? Why? Bragging rights? He needed a vinyl-only system for it to be the "world's best"? That's like trying to build the world's fastest car with a steam engine. So many of his design choices were apparently better for audiophool dick-measuring than actual performance.

This is a guy who seems to have uncritically followed at least some of the more-is-more, audio-is-magic dogma of the snake oil crowd.

If the audio world was ruled by objectivism, he could at least have saved a lot of money on the amps. I'm also betting the directivity and power response of those speakers wasn't exactly smooth as glass. Maybe he could have learned something from sites like this, and saved a bit of money and effort, if the information had been more available to him.

Lastly, I also think he must have been a bit of an asshole. The "Y" in DIY is "yourself", not "your whole family". Anyone that conscripts all of their family's time and resources to support their hobby can't be described as anything but selfish, at minimum.

I still think the article is a hatchet job on the guy.

My Father's hobby was old cars, restoring them, modding them, customizing them. I was engaged in lots of labor. I could paint it so that it sounds like I was forced into it like a slave. I was asked to do some things not so different than a kid living on the farm has some chores to do each day. Plus I learned a lot. Lot that was useful. I'm not so sure this guy's kids were put upon all that much more. Or maybe they were.

Like I said elsewhere, passion is almost by definition irrational. He had an extreme level of passion for his hobby. He apparently did have friends. He apparently did have the money to do this and support his family. If his family couldn't come to terms with it all, them maybe he went too far. Then again, I've seen kids that had as many issues with their parents that they never got over in their life, and the problem wasn't with the parents. Also sounds like this guy was probably an interesting guy at least to some people.

 

[Axo1989]

I think the Fritz story shows why the snake oil-based subjectivist world of audiophilia is actually really harmful.

This is a guy who couldn't easily afford the money he poured into the system. And he also built a system that frankly doesn't make sense. He needed 35KW of Krell amps? Why? Bragging rights? He needed a vinyl-only system for it to be the "world's best"? That's like trying to build the world's fastest car with a steam engine. So many of his design choices were apparently better for audiophool dick-measuring than actual performance.

A single FPB 700cx to drive each of those tower arrays isn't too bad really (and he used the mass to stabilise the speaker columns, ever practical). They weren't the Master Reference models, which would be mad overkill. And it was a 7.4 system iirc, hence so many amps. Was he designing it in the late 90s? Less choice for cheap power and less sophisticated measuring tools for speaker design then. Certainly he could have used PA amp gear, but I expect half his satisfaction was the strange aesthetic joy of over-engineering. He waxed lyrical about obtaining/assembling those silk-wrapped rubber speaker grill ropes from D'Agostino himself, remember. I expect he enjoyed the personal interactions involved.

Edit: DIY would be do it y'allself maybe

 

[Deleted member 21114]

Dude probably just liked Krell. Dollarstore sunglasses do the same job as Aviators after all

 

[Digby]

Dude probably just liked Krell. Dollarstore sunglasses do the same job as Aviators after all

Yes, but do they do it as well?

 

[kemmler3D]

I still think the article is a hatchet job on the guy.

My Father's hobby was old cars, restoring them, modding them, customizing them. I was engaged in lots of labor. I could paint it so that it sounds like I was forced into it like a slave. I was asked to do some things not so different than a kid living on the farm has some chores to do each day. Plus I learned a lot. Lot that was useful. I'm not so sure this guy's kids were put upon all that much more. Or maybe they were.

Like I said elsewhere, passion is almost by definition irrational. He had an extreme level of passion for his hobby. He apparently did have friends. He apparently did have the money to do this and support his family. If his family couldn't come to terms with it all, them maybe he went too far. Then again, I've seen kids that had as many issues with their parents that they never got over in their life, and the problem wasn't with the parents. Also sounds like this guy was probably an interesting guy at least to some people.

I've heard of people roping their families into their hobbies to a greater or lesser extent, and it can go well, or not. A co-worker takes his family sailing on long cruises, but they crew the boat, they aren't passengers. Not so great if you hate the water, but apparently they have a good time.

In this case, a son ended up disinherited over disputes that may have arisen in part from the hobby. That's a level of dysfunction that usually doesn't come up as related to someone's hobby.

I'm not so sure this guy's kids were put upon all that much more. Or maybe they were.

In the story, they made it sound like they never took a vacation, and only went camping twice in 18 (?) years, which is implicitly attributed to this guy not having time for anything outside of work or the speaker system project. Hopefully your dad didn't prioritize his cars that heavily over other possible uses of family time.

Looking at it from another angle - no vacations? Here we have a business owner who apparently had $1M of disposable income over the years, who could have taken several nice vacations with his family if he'd been able to settle for a half million or even $900K system and take a few days away from the project. But he didn't. It's not like that's abusive, but it's severely self-centered.

That's why I find Fritz as well as the audiophile culture blameworthy here. He really had to spend the maximum amount on everything? For god's sake, why? There's no way the sound or any aspect of the experience, other than his personal satisfaction with the objects themselves, improved commensurately. It mostly ended up being materialism for its own sake.

 

[Ron Texas]

I was thinking of his goals, not yours or mine. I've only skimmed the video material but he said he duplicated a concert hall in Osaka. For stereo reproduction—of the program material he favoured—with envelopment, we want room reflections (again, not me and classical is not my main thing either). Also he said the system was 7.4 so not limited to stereo, and @Ron Texas mentioned room treatment upthread iirc. So I think your "muddying" comment was an oversimplification, even though large spaces obviously pose different challenges to typical smaller rooms, longer delays can be beneficial depending on one's goals/setup. We mostly see his listening chair/s closer than critical distance for the direct/reflect mix.

Maybe this is an oversimplification, but I thought the recording engineers had a target which was 2 speakers 2 or 3 meters apart with the listener at the apex of an equilateral triangle in a medium size room. That setup should produce the best results without a lot of fuss. Of course anyone is free to diverge or experiment.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

If the audio world was ruled by objectivism

I think we should avoid that particular word -- current popular usage goes back to controversial "philosopher"/novelist Ayn Rand. "Objective" is OK, of course -- but "objectivism" has been thoroughly co-opted IMO.

Objectivism