KEF R3 Speaker Review

[rdenney]

Thank you--good point about the rear port, which I saw but it didn't register on my mind.

Rick "not really considering new speakers anyway, but curious about interpreting the spinorama" Denney

 

[fmplayer]

Amp for Kef R3 ... finale
Finally got the beasts to drive my beauties (R3) and ... it's a match !!! That's what my and my wife's ears, say. So, for those interested, here are, IMO, 3 amps that make a good or very good combination with the R3.
- Arcam SA20 is acceptable if a full integrated amp with digital inputs is wanted
- Moon 250i is a better match but on the expensive side (2500€)
- Hypex NC250MP seems to be the clear winner (thank you @batfunk ). Based on @amirm's review (thank you too), I also bought a Topping Pre90 which works excellent with my UD501 and the hypexes. I'm very glad to see good measuring stuff sounding accordingly.

And FWIW, Audiophonics makes great packaging and everything comes safe.
Only complain would be the pilot of the Pre90, which has a loo loose battery compartment.

Sorry guys, time to go back to music

 

[batfunk]

You're welcome. Glad you found the best combo but you quest is not over, you must face with room acoustic problems now

 

[fmplayer]

You're welcome. Glad you found the best combo but you quest is not over, you must face with room acoustic problems now

Well, alas, not completely. It occurred that listening was somewhat stressful and not enjoyable on the long term. On the other hand, there were details in spade, a real engineering instrument. After some manipulations, culprit was the pre90. Too much highs, at least subjectively to me. But, lucky me, my TEAC HA501 drives the hypexes, which was not expected. And for the record, my room acoustics is not that bad (sort of a compromise with WAF), which helps a lot. Must find a pre with topping's detail but with a more balanced and "bodied" sound. Reminded me of the japanese amps of old with lots of feedback. Measurements (alas) does not tell all the truth.
Good news is that the hypex is a keeper. Super neutral, you forget litterally about it. Thanks

 

[batfunk]

Your Topping Pre is fully transparent, so I assume you hear the real nature of your Kef, which was measured a touch bright by Amir. 2 solutions :
1) Equalization :by taming Kef Highs, you will regain roundness. That's what I did with my Paradigm Prestige 85F recently.
2)No equalization:before I adopt equalization, I changed my pre.
You should try SMSL M200 /P200couple.
P200 is approved by Amir. Subjectively, I found my previous Topping dx7 pro gave transparent but absolutely flat sound(not ASR approved, Dac has no sound signature lol) . No bass. Dead sound. I thought maybe chip was involved(ESS) so I bought SMSL m200(Akm chip). Sound was alive again, perfect middle beetween the TEAC ud 501 warm round sound and the clinical transparency of the Topping dx7 pro. I got the details And the kicking sound.
Once again, it's not scientifically measured(no ABX test) but you should try

 

[tecnogadget]

You're welcome. Glad you found the best combo but you quest is not over, you must face with room acoustic problems now

Don't be so sure about that last one. The R3 is incredible neutral regardless of placement. What I mean is that being a concentric coaxial design with excellent dispersion (both Horizontal and Vertical) and having it’s early reflections curve tracking the Frequency response so closely, they really disappear in the room above the Transition Frequency, reflections are benign.

Though is true that Room modes, bass ringing and eigentones below the Transition Frequency are inherent to almost all speakers and rooms, I tried to lessen this issues by finding the room best placement by doing REW measurements, and made the final touches by AVR graphic EQ + Tone control. The improvement makes you get away with murder.

Taming the highs (not as much as people would expect because they already roll off very well In-Room) and making it track the Harman curve is also very easy thanks to the smooth frequency response, its all about broad corrections, move up or down. Finally Toe-In is a matter of salt and pepper, user preference.

Of course I could get even better results by applying Room EQ (Dirac, Audyssey, Accourate) + Subwoofers for better House Curve tracking & perfect response below the Transition Frequency, and eventually I will do that. But it’s just amazing what you can achieve with this speaker if you understand it is a Medium to an End, and know what to do with it.

 

[Danielbb]

Answer is revealed in the Revel F35 review just posted: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/revel-f35-speaker-review.12053/

Hi Amir, would be nice to update the the first post with your findings.
Thanks in advance,

Daniël

 

[fmplayer]

Your Topping Pre is fully transparent, so I assume you hear the real nature of your Kef, which was measured a touch bright by Amir. 2 solutions :
1) Equalization :by taming Kef Highs, you will regain roundness. That's what I did with my Paradigm Prestige 85F recently.
2)No equalization:before I adopt equalization, I changed my pre.
You should try SMSL M200 /P200couple.
P200 is approved by Amir. Subjectively, I found my previous Topping dx7 pro gave transparent but absolutely flat sound(not ASR approved, Dac has no sound signature lol) . No bass. Dead sound. I thought maybe chip was involved(ESS) so I bought SMSL m200(Akm chip). Sound was alive again, perfect middle beetween the TEAC ud 501 warm round sound and the clinical transparency of the Topping dx7 pro. I got the details And the kicking sound.
Once again, it's not scientifically measured(no ABX test) but you should try

Problem solved (see My post on Pre90 thread): Pre90 and Hypex MUST be connected with XLR cable, not RCA.

At this stage, I'm done. R3's bass is surprisingly potent and clean, and I have no tonal complaints that would lead me to insert a MiniDSP digital Dirac.
Only thing left is buying a second XLR cord for the DAC connexion.

Much thanks to all of you

 

[tecnogadget]

Hi Amir, would be nice to update the the first post with your findings.
Thanks in advance,

Daniël

Dear @amirm as the member pointed out it would be nice and appreciated by many newcomers if there is a brief update/link at the bottom of the First Post in regards to the "fix" or change in subjective evaluation found at the Revel F35 Speaker Review. IMHO that's more convenient than leaving people to find it by themself buried deep inside in the forum/thread.

I've also noticed the Early Reflections, Horizontal Reflection & Vertical Reflections graphs that accompany most of the other speaker's reviews missing here.

Is it possible for you to calculate and plot them with the available saved data from the Klippel? It would be much appreciated and help to keep consistency between reviews. This one, in particular, is important as the objective data is excellent and full-year later still at the 2nd place at the Pref Score Ranking.

 

[douede]

Someone was poking fun at another poster, the measurements clearly show they integrate very well. Many neutral speakers sound "boring" at first, some people are used to the sizzle and excitement of Polks or Klipsch at best buy but over time they become harsh and fatiguing.

I have Klipsch RF7 and Kef R900.
The Klipsch are spectacular, hard kicking, filling the room with sound coming from everywhere.
Despite their kinda "close" sound, the Kef are more emotional and are the one with which i can listen to everything, for hours...
In the end, i choose the Kef, which surprises me because i like big sound (had JBL L300, 4333A ...).

 

[sloth_kwj]

I personally use multitone signal I have created according to the EIA-426B standard (which is decreasing in higher frequencies to be more similar to music spectrum) and similar to the one used at the Sound & Recording magazine monitor measurements by Prof. Goertz.

Could you share how you make it?

 

[thewas]

Could you share how you make it?

Had used the Klippel dB Lab software (which seems isn't free to download anymore) and this instruction (in German language) https://www.diy-hifi-forum.eu/forum...t-f%FCrs-Forum&p=196789&viewfull=1#post196789
But nowadays also REW has a quite nice multitone generator.

 

[goldenears]

I'm thinking about upgrading my Kef Q900 for R3 or R5.

The measurements look great for the R3 but I don't really want standmounts, especially such large heavy ones, for aesthetic and toppling reasons.

What would people expect that I would be gaining or losing (other than cash ) by going with R5 instead of R3?

I've always thought of floorstanders as "filling the room" more but that might be placebo effect or just not having heard really good standmounts.

I already have a good sub to handle low bass duties as a lot of the music I like is electronic.

 

[jonfitch]

I'm thinking about upgrading my Kef Q900 for R3 or R5.

The measurements look great for the R3 but I don't really want standmounts, especially such large heavy ones, for aesthetic and toppling reasons.

What would people expect that I would be gaining or losing (other than cash ) by going with R5 instead of R3?

I've always thought of floorstanders as "filling the room" more but that might be placebo effect or just not having heard really good standmounts.

I already have a good sub to handle low bass duties as a lot of the music I like is electronic.

You could just get small end tables and use them as stands...not much chance of toppling. Unless the floorstanders are like 100lbs kids can topple floorstanders if they want too.

 

[rynberg]

I'm thinking about upgrading my Kef Q900 for R3 or R5.

The measurements look great for the R3 but I don't really want standmounts, especially such large heavy ones, for aesthetic and toppling reasons.

What would people expect that I would be gaining or losing (other than cash ) by going with R5 instead of R3?

I've always thought of floorstanders as "filling the room" more but that might be placebo effect or just not having heard really good standmounts.

I already have a good sub to handle low bass duties as a lot of the music I like is electronic.

I wouldn't consider the R5 because of the 5-1/4" woofers. I would go R3 or R7.

 

[goldenears]

But two 5-1/4" would be better than one 6-1/2", no? Also extra cabinet space.

I did a bit of searching and came across a different thread here about it. Seems pretty much like a toss-up. Seems like both would be great speakers.

 

[laurelkurt]

I'm thinking about upgrading my Kef Q900 for R3 or R5.

The measurements look great for the R3 but I don't really want standmounts, especially such large heavy ones, for aesthetic and toppling reasons.

What would people expect that I would be gaining or losing (other than cash ) by going with R5 instead of R3?

I've always thought of floorstanders as "filling the room" more but that might be placebo effect or just not having heard really good standmounts.

I already have a good sub to handle low bass duties as a lot of the music I like is electronic.

I have both R900 and R3. My R3 is the one Amir reviewed. R900 is way better than the 3, and I seriously doubt the R5 would be a step up. R900 is just more capable, more efficient, and surely with the 2 9" woofers can pull off dynamics, and lower distortion. I also run 2 SVS 2000s. Sometimes on some music the 900s actually sound better running full range with no subs.

EDIT: I'm not so great at reading comprehension! I see you're talking about the Q900! Uh, I'd look to see if you can find a pair of R900s somewhere open box or used. I got mine for 2600 for the pair. So you'd surely get them for less.

 

[goldenears]

Thanks for the advice, and also for sending your R3 to be measured!

Oh no! Not more options!

 

[ListenNLearn]

Just auditioned these today against a variety of options at my local shop.

Below are my notes and a few questions.

OBSERVATIONS & COMPARISONS

KEF R3

• Enveloping sound.
• Detailed guitars and mid-bass vs all 2-way speakers
• Brighter and sweeter acoustic piano
• Excellent drum detail for toms and cymbals
• Better cello details
• Ability to hear all details of instruments when multiple are playing at the same time.
• Synths represented well - only one speaker did that better.
• A bit bright with chimes
• Good Sax. Not great
• Bass a bit smothered by other instruments at times

BW706s2

• Not as big bass and balance of instruments v KEF
• Good mid-bass
• Not as balanced or full sounding as KEF
• slightly better detail in highs and high bass

ELAC DBR62

• Surprisingly good mid-bass
• Vocals strong
• Good balance
• Cymbal details were better with KEF

ELAC Vela

• Good detail, but not as full or enveloping
• Horns in jazz tunes are better detailed
• Piano chords presented in good detail
• KEF was more immersive and enveloping
• Clean direct and punchy
• Fast details - drum licks and synths

KEF LS50 Meta
Good detail but significantly missing in mid-range and mid-bass
Had to try harder and a lot of detail and soundstage lost vs R3


QUESTIONS

What other options should I consider at this price range or below that are not floor standing models?
I noted that this does not have the top Pink Panther rating, so there must be something considered better.

Is there an amp pairing summary somewhere?
I noted a few amp suggestions above and would appreciate suggestions.

(Timing of) Plans to update the R3 with new UniQ driver?
Seems like KEF would naturally replace/update the R3 with the newer UniQ driver and cornmaze style dispersion device from LS50 Meta to all of their line. Any idea on if and when that might happen?


Thank you!

I've been reading here for a while and only recently created an account and this is my first post.
I appreciate all who have contributed to get me to this point.

 

[AdamG]

Welcome Aboard @ListenNLearn.