KEF Q100 Speaker Review

[QMuse]

I don't know man, Q350 sound great to me. Stereophile measurements looked OK too.

I wouldn't really call that measurement ok - port resonance at 1000Hz, wide dip spanning form 3kHz to 10kHz don't look attarctive to me.

 

[maty]

How do you measure magic? Coherence between tweeter and woofer.

The problem is that the frequency response on the axis is just one more factor. For the vast majority it seems that it is the only one that matter. Same as SINAD with amplifiers, wrong. Unfortunately the reality is much more complex and it is not so easy.

 

[bigjacko]

I had dipoles for many years and the imaging is certainly impressive compared to box speakers but realistic?
There is far more listening room influence on the sound you are listening to from dipoles, obviously, and whilst I very much enjoyed them I found on my own recordings the acoustics of the venue were to an extent "over-written" by the acoustics of my room, so I would definitely say less realistic (but lovely).
Mind you I would still be using them if I hadn't built a new listening room which they did not suit

Linkwitz said that dipole speaker's sound comes from the walls, not from two point sources from stereo speakers. Dipoles also have better off axis if setup is right, so the sweat spot is bigger. I think what Linkwitz thought on realistic was that dipole speaker feels like the musician is playing in the room and the sound bounces and fills in the room. Everyone will have different opinion on what is realistic.

 

[bigjacko]

What makes a loudspeaker 'forgiving' of poor recordings? Some inherent positive manipulation, perhaps? View attachment 53936

I would tend to think that better loudspeakers are more forgiving of better recordings.

For me, I have a lot of bright recordings, forgiving for me would then mean less peaks and dips from 1k to 10k Hz, and the level is also a bit lower than other frequencies so even more room for unevenness.

 

[QMuse]

How do you measure magic?

Usually a number of the wine glasses I drank works quite well for me to measure it.

 

[georgeT]

I wouldn't really call that measurement ok - port resonance at 1000Hz, wide dip spanning form 3kHz to 10kHz don't look attarctive to me.

Nothing that can't be DSPed, and the port is in the back. I got them for 370 euros, and I couldn't find anything in the price range that had any measurements at the time.

 

[QMuse]

For me, I have a lot of bright recordings, forgiving for me would then mean less peaks and dips from 1k to 10k Hz, and the level is also a bit lower than other frequencies so even more room for unevenness.

Statistically speaking there is a 99% chance you haven't properly EQ-ed your in-room response and 1% that you have. Which camp are you in?

 

[QMuse]

Nothing that can't be DSPed, and the port is in the back.

Sure, everything can be hammered to flat with DSP, but you can't predict quality of the final result without seeing the directivity graphs.

 

[twofires]

No, we are not. I am not willing to accept anyones sighted test observations related to distortion which don't correlate with distortion measurements. The fact that he is a trained listener also doesn't help here as trained listener aren't immune to sighted bias.

So, as long as his observations don't correlate with distortion measurement one of those 2 is wrong.

We are agreeing to the extent that no one is saying Amir's amp is distorting. That was the only agreement I was implying.

As for the rest, I get what you're saying, but qualitative data is still data (albeit with a big asterisk) . Get enough of it saying the same thing and that warrants further quantitative analysis to figure out what is going on. Saying "everyone is imagining this distortion" seems a bit hand-wavey to me.

 

[QMuse]

That is true, it may as well be that distorion measurement is missing something he's been hearing. Untill this is resolved I don't see apoint in further distortion measurement as this is not the first time Amir is complaining about distorion with small speakers while at the same time the distortion graph looked reasonably ok.

 

[maty]

Off topic

Linkwitz said that dipole speaker's sound comes from the walls, not from two point sources from stereo speakers. Dipoles also have better off axis if setup is right, so the sweat spot is bigger. I think what Linkwitz thought on realistic was that dipole speaker feels like the musician is playing in the room and the sound bounces and fills in the room. Everyone will have different opinion on what is realistic.

Poor Man's GR-Research Line Force
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.p...sbgfi6koc6e9515v2&topic=168710.msg1788289#new

Here is a video of my poor man's Line Force. I explain the setup and have a sound sample. Speakers completely disappear, as do the walls. Fantastic sound stage for a small room. Use head phones or your audio system. Will add more sound samples later...

Ha. Well, I wanted the impact of the Super V with the electrostatic clarity of the BGs. I am sorry I questioned it before as BG Neo 10 is electrostic in clarity and imaging, even better imaging than most planers perhaps.

-> YouTube Poor Man's GR-Research Line Force Speakers

 

[bigjacko]

Statistically speaking there is a 99% chance you haven't properly EQ-ed your in-room response and 1% that you have. Which camp are you in?

Haha, I am in other camps. I use headphones with eqs from oratory1990. I don't use speakers much, or even not at all! The eqs from oratory1990 are pretty good generally, all my headphones sound pretty much the same with the eqs.

 

[georgeT]

Sure, everything can be hammered to flat with DSP, but you can't predict quality of the final result without seeing the directivity graphs.

I use them nearfield, HP filter @ 60hz on a 30W amp with no rattling or distortion. Main reason I went with them is that I don't have to bob and weave my head like Cassius Clay to catch to sweet spot, fits my needs perfectly.

 

[tuga]

Razor sharp imaging is a party trick of the mixing of stereophonic recording. Anyone who thinks that any real performance has imaging like that needs to get out more and go to live music. The recording process unavoidably leads to a different overall sound. Just the positioning of the microphones should tell you that.
I go to a lot of concerts, many are recorded for broadcast. So I get to hear them both live and later as a recording. The same concert will have a totally different sonic signature recorded. So much of what the golden eared value is basically invented. They, most of all, need to get out more.

I don't understand if you are agreeing or I disagreement with my post.
Would you agree that for the stereophonic trick to work at its best then a point source would be ideal?

For what it's worth,
I also go to a local church for the weekly lunchtime recital and to other concerts as well, all classical or at least unamplified. I find that minimally mic'ed recordings sound a lot more realistic than stereo mixes.
A good example is Sa Chen's Grieg PC (Pentagon's) which sound more convincing in the YT video of the live performance which I attended than the recording.

 

[thewas]

In this test of Reference 5 performed by Stereophile it seems to perform fine. Althoug, for that kind of money I would expect it to also make me a coffee in the morning and not just to play music.

View attachment 53957

Here are some more detailed measurements from the same acoustics professor that also does the S&R measurements of the little Reference 1, quite impressive imho for a passive coax loudspeaker:
https://www.fidelity-online.de/kef-reference-1-messungen/

 

[QMuse]

I use them nearfield, HP filter @ 60hz on a 30W amp with no rattling or distortion. Main reason I went with them is that I don't have to bob and weave my head like Cassius Clay to catch to sweet spot, fits my needs perfectly.

That is a good sign as it confirms your assumption that they can be EQ-ed in an effective manner.

 

[QMuse]

Here are some more detailed measurements from the same acoustics professor that also does the S&R measurements of the little Reference 1, quite impressive imho for a passive coax loudspeaker:
https://www.fidelity-online.de/kef-reference-1-messungen/

Very impressive! But then, such is the price as well.

 

[bigjacko]

Off topic



Poor Man's GR-Research Line Force
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.p...sbgfi6koc6e9515v2&topic=168710.msg1788289#new




-> YouTube Poor Man's GR-Research Line Force Speakers

That is what Linkwitz said about dipoles, the sound is from the room, not from speaker, so speaker disappear in the room. The music in the vedio does sound like it was hovering around the room, but I feel that is because the effect of the music . Strange thing about his speaker is that he use a planar tweeter and crossover at 400Hz? That seems too low, specially for planar tweeter. The sub is open baffle 12 inch, it is also strange. The bass in dipole speaker will cancel out each other unless the baffle is very big, I don't think 12 inch is suitable for dipole sub. Normally people just use sub in a box so the bass does not cancel out.

 

[thewas]

Very impressive! But then, such is the price as well.

Well its part of the "High end", in the that segment value for money is usually even worse and if its sold cheaoer the audiphools and their magazines will rate it lower

 

[Frank Dernie]

Everyone will have different opinion on what is realistic.

Well my opinion is based on recordings I made myself and I am sure the ambience of the recording venue wasn't as well portrayed by dipoles.
They did sound very nice though but "realistic" is going too far since it was not an accurate transcription of my recording.
The stereo image was fantastically deep so I loved them, but it is not real, it is created by the acoustics of the room and how the speaker bounces sound around it, so is an added artefact.