KEF LS50 Upgrade

[simplywyn]

I’ve had KEF LS50 and KEF Q350 for about a year or so with a Denon 600ne attached and often switch the two to compare different sounds. I find that the LS50s have incredible clarity but sound tiny and the Q350 have incredible size but have no clarity across the board.

I’m wondering what I can do to upgrade the sound of my LS50s since the feel a tad underwhelming for what people are saying about them? I have these speaker stands I bought from Best Buy, should I go out and sped 300 bucks on audiophile speaker stands?

Should I upgrade the amp to over 200W? Would that make any tangible difference?

Should I just sell the LS50 and move to the next level? Basically I love the clarity of LS50 and I love the size of the Q350, are there floorstanders that have both? Should I stick with bookshelves?

What’s the upgrade path from here...

 

[NTK]

IMHO, add subs and use room EQ. If you haven't, you may want to read @mitchco's article.
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...ker-comparison-with-binaural-recordings-r768/

 

[DSJR]

You could look at what decent active monitors are around for you budget after selling the LS50's and your amp - maybe?

The LS50 comes over as a touch 'cold' in tone (some Dynaudio's do to me as well) and a larger more powerful amp may well help here (from a UK perspective I'd look immediately at a Quad Artera (606/707/909 family) or the mono QMP's if price allows. The sound, assuming it has one, is velvet rather than bright-n-shiny but with a kick inside

All I can say about most 'passive' speakers is that they have a sodding crossover network between the amp and the drive units and even the best ones have an insertion loss. often, going more powerful can wake the speakers up and bring the sound away from the plane of the boxes. Whether this wil be enough for you I don't know.

 

[pocoloco]

If you're content with how the LS50's sound overall, then add a sub. It's an absolute must. You just have to use measurement tools to integrate them properly. After that, upgrade the amp as these are power hungry and come alive at mid to higher volumes. I've been sitting pretty with this setup for the past 5 years with no itch to upgrade. That said, if you just like to swap gear and try new things, that's fun too.

 

[simplywyn]

I have an sb-1000 with it as well but I don’t feel like it adds much substance

 

[ex audiophile]

I’ve had KEF LS50 and KEF Q350 for about a year or so with a Denon 600ne attached and often switch the two to compare different sounds. I find that the LS50s have incredible clarity but sound tiny and the Q350 have incredible size but have no clarity across the board.

I’m wondering what I can do to upgrade the sound of my LS50s since the feel a tad underwhelming for what people are saying about them? I have these speaker stands I bought from Best Buy, should I go out and sped 300 bucks on audiophile speaker stands?

Should I upgrade the amp to over 200W? Would that make any tangible difference?

Should I just sell the LS50 and move to the next level? Basically I love the clarity of LS50 and I love the size of the Q350, are there floorstanders that have both? Should I stick with bookshelves?

What’s the upgrade path from here...

I had LS50s for several years, but I recently purchased the ELAC debut ref speakers ($600/pair) and to me they are a big improvement, esp on the bass side. IMO 100 watts is plenty but I'd never argue with having an abundance of power, all other factors equal. For a more generous budget any of the Revel speakers would be the next upgrade (I have the 228be and 126be and they are superb). I've gone both directions on the sub plus bookshelf vs tower and after many many dollars and experiences I come down on the tower side, if you have the room. And as often is said, the bookshelf on a stand takes up the same room as a tower and is much less stable (dogs, kids, alcohol). And of course you can always add a sub to the tower if you wish. If you use a digital preamp for the bass management and room correction (say an Anthem STR) then having a sub(s) and bookshelf is a nice way to go as the DSP will handle the blending for you. If however, you wish to try a truly analog solution like the Benchmark LA4 and you have a sub, the bass management becomes a trial and error process that for me would be a frustrating chore (for others it could be fun). If you have a nice tower, like a Revel, the crossovers are all taken care of and you can experiment with various preamps and hell just go right from a DAC to your amp if you have the right components. Just my opinions, bottom line regarding your question is yes, I'd upgrade and if it were me I'd go to a Revel tower that fits in your budget. It keeps more options open to you.

 

[Juhazi]

LS50 and Q350 simply have totally different spl response. Eq most likely can make them sound similar, because directivity is practically identical. If there is a serial resistor in Q350's tweeter xo, bypassing that makes them more alike

Stereophile/Atkinson's measurements of Q350

and LS50 Anniversary

 

[raistlin65]

I have an sb-1000 with it as well but I don’t feel like it adds much substance

Might want to experiment with placement to see if that improves things. Did you do the subwoofer crawl?

 

[simplywyn]

I see a deal for reve concerts f36 for only 1400 down from 2400, should I just sell my LS50 and move floorstander?

 

[simplywyn]

Might want to experiment with placement to see if that improves things. Did you do the subwoofer crawl?

haven’t really done the sub crawl but seems like it on a good place in my room

 

[raistlin65]

haven’t really done the sub crawl but seems like it on a good place in my room

How do you know if you haven't done the sub crawl? Did you measure it?

 

[simplywyn]

How do you know if you haven't done the sub crawl? Did you measure it?

I can move around my room and hear where the sub is loud and where I have it seems to be the best place, so I guess I subconsciously did the sub crawl without crawling around the floor

 

[BDWoody]

I’m wondering what I can do to upgrade the sound of my LS50s since the feel a tad underwhelming for what people are saying about them?

How far are they from your listening position? More than 5-6', you may start to feel disappointed if you try to turn them up much.

I changed from them to JBL 780P's, and that worked much better for non-nearfield listening. I just moved the LS50's to a different listening area where my seat is about 5' away, and they do very nicely there.

 

[aarons915]

I had the LS50's for a few years and just recently upgraded to the R3. The "clarity" you speak of is basically due to the boosted region around 2k, it gives them a very open, spacious sound but it can be fatiguing over time, I had to EQ them a bit, the R3 also benefit from EQ. If you're completely happy with the LS50 except for the lack of bass the best option is to properly dial in your sub, the only way to do that is to measure them and apply EQ to get a good blend. Most people who have them have found that using higher crossovers makes them play louder and cleaner as well, I could only go as high as 120 in a 5.1 setup but if you have a stereo setup with the sub close to your mains you might be able to get away with 150-200Hz, measurements are important if you go higher as well to ensure your sub is properly rolling off, at 120 or above it helps to add in a 1st or 2nd order low pass to roll the sub off more sharply.

The R3 would also solve your problem but you might not like the highs as much without EQ, I preferred the LS50 until I got the measurements here and fixed the dip from 1-3k, now they beat the LS50 from top to bottom and I don't have to worry about distortion or crossing them over at 120Hz.

 

[Kervel]

I have the LS50s in my home office, and added a sub a few months ago. At first, I connected it to the RCA out on my amplifier, but unfortunately this is 'full signal out'. It means the RCA out volume doesnt adjust when I change volume on the amp, such that the sub and speakers play at different levels. The solution was to fix volume on both the amp and on the sub (well matched), and then only adjust volume digitally on my PC. I used UMIK with REW to integrate the sub, and while this made some improvement, the bass sounded like coming from a separate source than the speakers--a bit rumbling below the music.

Then I ordered the MiniDSP 2x4 HD to properly integrate the sub. Only now they sound fantastic: properly crossed over AND integrated with UMIK and REW. I recommend ONLY adding a sub if you can properly integrate it.

 

[Ron Texas]

IMHO, add subs and use room EQ. If you haven't, you may want to read @mitchco's article.
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revi...ker-comparison-with-binaural-recordings-r768/

To that I would add be real careful with room placement. The LS50 doesn't have a bump in the 100-200 hz range so quarter wave cancellation can cause a nasty dip there. Next, most people prefer to have them facing straight ahead. My setup is also LS50's, Crown XLS 1502 and L12 subs. The big difference from @mitchco is he is using a software crossover and I am using the hardware crossovers built into the XLS 1502 and the subs.

 

[simplywyn]

Really good info everyone, would it be easier just to go with floorstanders as well?

 

[raistlin65]

I can move around my room and hear where the sub is loud and where I have it seems to be the best place, so I guess I subconsciously did the sub crawl without crawling around the floor

Did you have the subwoofer in the listening position when you did that? That's what you have to do to make that work.

 

[simplywyn]

How far are they from your listening position? More than 5-6', you may start to feel disappointed if you try to turn them up much.

I changed from them to JBL 780P's, and that worked much better for non-nearfield listening. I just moved the LS50's to a different listening area where my seat is about 5' away, and they do very nicely there.

They are In my living room so around 8-9ft away from my listening position. I think this is probably the real problem I’m having.

Maybe I should just eq the q350

 

[simplywyn]

The

Did you have the subwoofer in the listening position when you did that? That's what you have to do to make that work.

No I did the reverse - I started with the sub in one position and moved around to room to find the sound where I really liked the sub, then moved the sub around the room to get that sound to be where I sit normally, overall effect is probably the same.

I have no issues with the sub, it’s just the LS50 doesn’t feel like it’s giving what I want - like should I upgrade to revels or rp8000 is there going to be a big difference?