Kef Blade 1 meta disappointed

[DamianW]

The only place I could find to audition the Kef Blade 1 meta was Magnolia. I liked the KEF sound but no matter how I got them to move these around in the room, the imaging was horrible, which is what I expected them to be best at. The soundstage never went beyond the two speakers, and closing my eyes, I could easily point to both speakers. I currently have Goldenear Triton1r's and they image great, disappear in the room. My only issues with the GM's is the treble can be a bit harsh at times and the bass could be tighter though they do go very low. I know that there must be something wrong with the set up or equipt being used as the Blades should have imaged better than the GM's based upon their technology. Anyone have a similar experience and/or have these speakers in AZ who would let me hear them set up correctly?

I have experienced the exact same issue with several KEF speakers, I have listened too. LS60, R11, Reference 5.

All the KEFs speakers had the same characteristic, poor centre imagine, no sound stage and the speakers did not disappear. Yet the distortion was very low, tonality was excellent.

Demoed in a hi end retailed with a good room and good electronics.

The same electronics were used to demo Proac's D48R back to back with the Reference 5. Both speakers were position directly beside each other. The Proac's had large sound stage great centre imagine and the speakers disappeared. Sadly the Proacs had poor distortion and poor tonality.

 

[NTK]

All the KEFs the speakers had the same characteristic, poor centre imagine, no sound stage and the speakers did not disappear.

From Kal Rubinson's Blade 2 Meta review. One person's subjective impression contradicted by another, now what?

KEF Blade Two Meta loudspeaker Page 2

Sure, these are foxtrots, most of them suitable for dancing, but they are sophisticated and fascinating. Each disc covers a different geographical area: Austria and the Czech lands; Germany; Central and Eastern Europe; France and Belgium. The composers and arrangers include many great names from...

www.stereophile.com

 

[DamianW]

From Kal Rubinson's Blade 2 Meta review. One person's subjective impression contradicted by another, now what?

KEF Blade Two Meta loudspeaker Page 2

Sure, these are foxtrots, most of them suitable for dancing, but they are sophisticated and fascinating. Each disc covers a different geographical area: Austria and the Czech lands; Germany; Central and Eastern Europe; France and Belgium. The composers and arrangers include many great names from...

www.stereophile.com

View attachment 431143

My personal experience was not with the Blade 2.

The reason for my post, was there were several post suggesting the room.
I having listened to several KEF speakers in different rooms they all had the same characteristic.
If you look at the measured polar plots you will see indications as to why this might be the case.
I also had the back to back test with the same electronics in the same room, with the only change the speaker (KEF vs Proac).

 

[thewas]

All the KEFs the speakers had the same characteristic, poor centre imagine, no sound stage and the speakers did not disappear.

Maybe there is something individual affecting such, for me and few audiophile friends that have visited me they are exactly the opposite, namely completely disappearing even with open eyes, especially the old Blade 2 non meta which I had heard had the most 3-dimensional imaging I ever heard from a stereo setup.

 

[Purité Audio]

I have experienced the exact same issue with several KEF speakers, I have listened too. LS60, R11, Reference 5.

All the KEFs the speakers had the same characteristic, poor centre imagine, no sound stage and the speakers did not disappear. Yet the distortion was very low, tonality was excellent.

Demoed in a hi end retailed with a good room and good electronics.

The same electronics were used to demo Proac's D48R back to back with the Reference 5. Both speakers were position directly beside each other. The Proac's had large sound stage great centre imagine and the speakers disappeared. Sadly the Proacs had poor distortion and poor tonality.

KEF co-axials here including the LS60 and the imaging is pin sharp, I would say only matched by Genelecs coax in terms of imaging.
Keith

 

[Pearljam5000]

You need at least another $10K for cables, DAC, Amp
That's almost $40K
For that amount I'd just buy some big active monitors + subs that will wipe the floor with the Blades.

 

[Mnyb]

NB , KEF does not have "showroom sound" . The paradox is that they works much better in the intended use case at home .

Also the coaxial driver has one drawback you should not aim it directly at the listener its best sweetspot is a bit on the side exactly on axis is it worst performance.
And surprise kef can be less airy sounding directly on axis IME .

So if your used to some kind exact toe in aiming directly at your listening spot , you may have to rethink and use a quite mild or no toe in , this also widens sweetspot and soundstage
The KEF does not have the problems that made you use a lot of toe in in the past ?

Note : me expereince is with LSXii and LS60 I dont have blade money

LS60 is a serious audiophile speaker btw not some kind sonos upgrade...

 

[antcollinet]

it's possible that the Goldenears in my properly treated room are just really dialed in and are the equal of the Blades. Both are A rated by Stereophile.

Quite possible. I'm a long way from this rarefied end of the speaker market - but you must already be weill into the range of diminishing returns.

My only issues with the GM's is the treble can be a bit harsh at times and the bass could be tighter though they do go very low.

If you've not already, it would be worth first trying to sort out these issues with a bit of room EQ - which may, in any case be needed with the KEFs

 

[Sokel]

NB , KEF does not have "showroom sound" . The paradox is that they works much better in the intended use case at home .

Also the coaxial driver has one drawback you should not aim it directly at the listener its best sweetspot is a bit on the side exactly on axis is it worst performance.
And surprise kef can be less airy sounding directly on axis IME .

So if your used to some kind exact toe in aiming directly at your listening spot , you may have to rethink and use a quite mild or no toe in , this also widens sweetspot and soundstage
The KEF does not have the problems that made you use a lot of toe in in the past ?

Note : me expereince is with LSXii and LS60 I dont have blade money

LS60 is a serious audiophile speaker btw not some kind sonos upgrade...

At my previous house (untreated room) no coax work for me, no matter the placement.

Surprise - surprise, as I later found out during the treatment of this room what's crucial about it is the ceiling and floor.
And it makes sense, coaxials spread the same energy at those, they must be tamed somehow.

 

[Mnyb]

At my previous house (untreated room) no coax work for me, no matter the placement.

Surprise - surprise, as I later found out during the treatment of this room what's crucial about it is the ceiling and floor.
And it makes sense, coaxials spread the same energy at those, they must be tamed somehow.

Good to know i have a rug on wooden floor ( oak parquet ) and the roof is wood planks with small distance 1-3 mm between each plank ( then its some sheet and insulation ).
My rug is probably to thin to off any real consequence . Limited treatment behind my head at the backwall due to my unfortunate listening position close to a wall.

Speaks volume about how different our circumstances can bee ?
Try at home is important . My experience is that other speakers can be even more picky , KEF usually works .
But there is for sure applications where a coax is not an optimal solution !

There a lot of speakers with wide horizontal spread but less vertical spread, deliberately so with for example d'appolito array's or the WG shaped to accomplish this .

 

[Theta]

You need at least another $10K for cables, DAC, Amp
That's almost $40K
For that amount I'd just buy some big active monitors + subs that will wipe the floor with the Blades.

Absolutely, Kef have gone all in on the coaxial, Meta and Blade included. They maybe perfect in some situations, but as a whole, vastly over rated. There in no real mid-range driver. Limited SPL before IM distortion appears. The best coax I have auditioned to date is the Tad top of the line.

 

[Snafu]

This thread is an absolute sh#t-show.

Pretty much same in most threads. After 3-4 posts thread is gone off the subject in matter.

 

[Snafu]

All the KEFs the speakers had the same characteristic, poor center imagine, no sound stage and the speakers did not disappear. Yet the distortion was very low, tonality was excellent.

Could this be caused by uneven measuring speakers in pairs? Years ago i bought Duntech speakers and manufacturer said that these speakers have components measured to match it's pair (L / R) giving exceptional center image. So technically there might be minor variance between how speaker pairs measure.

 

[antcollinet]

a 5 minute visit at DeepSeek or ChatGPT would haven given you the concept in an easily digestible manner.

Or it might have fed you a whole load of incorrect garbage. Or worse, garbage mixed with truth, but presented with utterly convincing confidence.

The problem with LLM AI is that if you don't already know the answer, you've no way to judge if the answer given is correct or not - unless the AI provides references, AND you are able to fact check the references.

 

[Mnyb]

None of my KEF speakers have poor center image ? it's pinpoint and precise in fact the whole soundscape seems to sound the same L to R ?

Are there any good test tracks for this ? would be cool with a voice or instrument moving L to R in increments so one can judge if it sound the same

 

[Beave]

Absolutely, Kef have gone all in on the coaxial, Meta and Blade included. They maybe perfect in some situations, but as a whole, vastly over rated. There in no real mid-range driver. Limited SPL before IM distortion appears. The best coax I have auditioned to date is the Tad top of the line.

Do you have any measurements to demonstrate this? Erin's multitone distortion measurements look very good to me (source: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_blade2_meta/ )

 

[DamianW]

Could this be caused by uneven measuring speakers in pairs? Years ago i bought Duntech speakers and manufacturer said that these speakers have components measured to match it's pair (L / R) giving exceptional center image. So technically there might be minor variance between how speaker pairs measure.

Any imbalance will effect the imagining, regardless of if it comes from the DAC, preamp, amp or speakers.

 

[Mnyb]

The IMD issue is true to an extent , for best result avoid the non 3 way kef's the coax works best in it's midrange/tweeter configuration with XO at 300-400 Hz .
A sub is not always enough to unload the coax even if that helps to .

But i think the issue is solved in the 3-ways . Possible in the LS60 it might be a bit on the small side . I use in them in pretty small/midsize room and does not play at reference levels so I'm good

 

[thewas]

Absolutely, Kef have gone all in on the coaxial, Meta and Blade included. They maybe perfect in some situations, but as a whole, vastly over rated. There in no real mid-range driver. Limited SPL before IM distortion appears.

That is not correct, current 3-way KEF models can offer superbly low IM values even at very high SPL:

 

[DamianW]

None of my KEF speakers have poor center image ? it's pinpoint and precise in fact the whole soundscape seems to sound the same L to R ?

Are there any good test tracks for this ? would be cool with a voice or instrument moving L to R in increments so one can judge if it sound the same

Orchestral music is typically a good option.

War of the Worlds, Sheherazade are often what I use to test.

Chesky also has a series of binaural recordings which I have found to be interesting as well.