Kali Audio IN-8 Studio Monitor Review

[gvl]

I seem to remember reading that woofers can benefit from a break-in period, could the anomaly here be due to too stiff of a low range driver due to being new?

 

[daftcombo]

I seem to remember reading that woofers benefit from a break-in period, could the anomaly here be due to too stiff of a low range driver due to being new?

It would be funny to measure break-in time!

 

[ta240]

From what I see, yes. They get free samples, do a video on it and call it good. There are some exceptions. The one video I saw had the person from Kali there:

And if they want to keep getting free samples they have to do an enthusiastic review of this sample.

I guess some of them may think the items are as impressive as they say in the video but I have to admit that I tend to be much more impressed with free things.

The reviews might be a lot different if they had to think of it as that they just spent all that money on the product and it was going to be the only speaker, amp, DAC or whatever that they'd have to listen to for the next few years. Because for the average person that is what it will be.

 

[digitalfrost]

Break-in is a good point actually, but it would increase the complexity and duration of the measurements significantly. When DIYing speakers, I usually let the woofers run at their responance frequency for a day or so. I know Burmester does the same, except they let the chassis wobble for about 5 days. That would mean removing the woofer, disconnecting the wires and connecting it to another signal source.

If you let it run in the box, it can be quite loud, however maybe it's not a problem for Amir. A simple sweep from 40-80hz should cover most woofers.

 

[Krunok]

Break-in is a good point actually, but it would increase the complexity and duration of the measurements significantly. When DIYing speakers, I usually let the woofers run at their responance frequency for a day or so. I know Burmester does the same, except they let the chassis wobble for about 5 days. That would mean removing the woofer, disconnecting the wires and connecting it to another signal source.

If you let it run in the box, it can be quite loud, however maybe it's not a problem for Amir. A simple sweep from 40-80hz should cover most woofers.

Do you have some proof they sound different after the break-in or it is your wife telling you so from the kitchen?

 

[617]

I seem to remember reading that woofers can benefit from a break-in period, could the anomaly here be due to too stiff of a low range driver due to being new?

Woofer break in will shift the woofer resonance frequency a little bit, but it won't affect anything much above that. It's a subtle effect which is visible in the TS parameters and not the frequency response.

 

[Krunok]

It's a subtle effect which is visible in the TS parameters and not the frequency response.

So it's typical "wife from the kitchen" effect, right?

 

[Juhazi]

It is important and interesing to study why Amir's Klippel scanner measurements don't match with other "traditional" methods. To me it looks like there is basic difference (problem?) in how NFS handles baffle loss. Other question is where is NFS's "on-axis" - at tweeter height or between mid/tweeter if they aren't coaxial? At what distance is on-axis done? Kali's own measurements look decent.

Amir's measurement of LSR305 shows a step around 700Hz and NHT has steps at 600 and 800Hz. These could come from same problem as with Kali. Perhaps measurement room's first reflection "elimination" is causing these - artefacts?

Amir, how does Kali sound, is it bass-shy?

Here is Edge simulation of Kali's woofer only. We can see that the xo 330Hz is in middle of baffle loss range. The mid has pretty much same effect, but the challenge is how eq and xo are set for each unit.

 

[amirm]

I seem to remember reading that woofers can benefit from a break-in period, could the anomaly here be due to too stiff of a low range driver due to being new?

There are over 500 measurements behind these results. If they don't break in during that, that would be another issue.

 

[Andreas007]

I also had some thoughts about acoustical axis. At least with Neumann KH120 the center of the vertical axis is NOT the height of the tweeter but the mid between tweeter and woofer.

Did I already mention to measure a Neumann as soon as possible?

 

[Krunok]

Here are measruements of all 3 monitors (JBL, NHT & Kali). It seems some similarities exist between all of them, like wide dip in the 200-300 (or more). @Juhazi can it be related to your theory or is it a coincidence?

 

[amirm]

I feel like I just took a master audio engineering class over the course of this single feed! Great stuff.

Question - for @amirm - I don't know if you've ever read John Krutke's measurement info over at zaphaudio.com but he mentioned a huge temperature related frequency response changes with respect to car audio. You stated that your Klippel setup is in your (cold) garage. Most people are listening to their speakers in a house with the room temp in the 68-74F degree range. If your garage is unheated and cold that could have an effect on the measurements. It might be worth logging the air temp, humidity and barometric pressure of your test environment during measurements.

I looked them up. He is testing drivers, not finished, enclosed loudspeakers. These small differences vanish when you put drivers in a box. See Dr. Toole's book:

I saw the measurements. The driver makes noticeable change with use. But once in a box, it hardly shows up at all on frequency response.

All of this said, I did mean to note the temp but forgot. It was about 52 degrees F. So not freezing or anything.

 

[Midwest Blade]

I continue to wonder what producers are using in the studi and if this is actually having a bearing on all of the poorly produced music that is getting delivered. Especially so on the independent bedroom/living room performance.

 

[amirm]

I continue to wonder what producers are using in the studi and if this is actually having a bearing on all of the poorly produced music that is getting delivered. Especially so on the independent bedroom/living room performance.

Audio production is completely broken in this regard. Every studio uses a different speaker in a different room. Why they have not tried to standardize and at least provide metadata about their rooms so that we can try to replicate, is beyond me.

This type of testing though will move us more toward a single standard.

 

[oldsysop]

Best coaxial speaker I've ever heard was a Geithain

I wonder how a Tannoy monitor gold 15 will measure

 

[williamwally]

Very interested to see how another IN-8 tests; it still seems to me like this may have been a bad unit vs any measurement errors.

 

[garbulky]

And if they want to keep getting free samples they have to do an enthusiastic review of this sample.

I guess some of them may think the items are as impressive as they say in the video but I have to admit that I tend to be much more impressed with free things.

The reviews might be a lot different if they had to think of it as that they just spent all that money on the product and it was going to be the only speaker, amp, DAC or whatever that they'd have to listen to for the next few years. Because for the average person that is what it will be.

This is usually how reviews work - the company sends it for free evaluation. Even Amir accepts free samples from company's for testing. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[edechamps]

A comment on you mentioning the 200-400 hz range. For those who haven't read the Olive paper. Judging deviation from a reference level Olive uses 200-400 hz as the reference range. This was found to be what listeners who were evaluating speakers were using.

Oh that's interesting. Do you remember which one of Olive's papers discusses this?

 

[Thomas_A]

Just a note: The similarities between the Kali and JBL is that the level below the woofer crossover frequency (330 and 1725 Hz, respectively) is lower than that above the crossover frequency. Based on the vertical dispersion, crossover of the NHT may lie between 2-3 kHz, but the low region dips below 900 Hz or so. But I would guess that that the 900-1000 Hz transition is a break-up or diffraction effect.

 

[napilopez]

I seem to remember reading that woofers can benefit from a break-in period, could the anomaly here be due to too stiff of a low range driver due to being new?

I've measured a few speakers new and then months later and have yet to see a frequency response difference due to burn in. Not saying it's impossible for break-in to have an effect, but it definitely wouldnt cause the issues we're seeing here.