• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

JBL Studio S38

michaelahess

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Messages
72
Likes
60
One of my 4" midranges had it's magnet fall off many years ago. I straightened the voice coil and epoxied it back together. Well something happened and it's buzzing now. I would like to replace with something comparable but don't have the knowledge to match this driver. I don't know the Thiele Small specs, and can't find them online. I know it's 8 ohm, polymer-coated cellulose-fiber, crossed at 800 and 3.2k, and that's it.

I found new old stock (I think) at The Speaker Exchange, but at $100 shipped, that's a bit steep for me.

I'm thinking this M4N (to 8k) or the B4N (to 4k): https://www.parts-express.com/HiVi-M4N-4-Aluminum-Magnesium-Midbass-297-434

I want it to have a close sound signature, but don't mind if it's a bit brighter/louder, as I've always thought these suffered a bit in the vocal ranges.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Thank you!
 

hex168

Senior Member
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
401
Likes
342
The spec for the S38:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/782859/Jbl-S38.html
gives the sensitivity at 89dB/1w/1m for a nominal 8 ohm speaker. That is hard to find in a 4" mid. The HiVi you mention will not come close.

Maybe:
https://www.parts-express.com/LaVoce-FSF041.00-4-Full-Range-Woofer-8-Ohm-293-709
or
https://www.parts-express.com/FaitalPRO-4FE35-4-Professional-Woofer-8-Ohm-294-1124

What is the size of the mid sub-enclosure? The LaVoce looks like it needs about 3l, stuffed. It also looks like the front panel will be much easier to manage with the original mid, which might be worth it. The two drivers I linked may be hard to fit.
 
OP
M

michaelahess

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Messages
72
Likes
60
My bad math tells me it's about 5 liters. And it is stuffed pretty well. I haven't built a speaker box in decades. Is bigger ok, so long as it's not smaller where you need it stuffed more to feel larger right?
 

MrPeabody

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 19, 2020
Messages
657
Likes
946
Location
USA
Replacement of a driver in a speaker is not simple. The crossover is designed to work correctly with that specific driver, and it will not work as intended with another driver unless you get lucky. Sometimes you do get lucky, but you're trying to avoid spending $100. Maybe you'll spend $50 instead, and save $50, but you'll likely end up with something that doesn't sound right and you'll end up spending the $100 in addition to the $50 that you already spent.

The manual that hex168 found provides some help. The sensitivity of the speaker overall is 89 dB, but this will not be the sensitivity of the midrange driver per se, for a couple of reasons. First, the tweeter and woofer both contribute to midrange output. The amount they contribute depends on their natural rolloff and on the crossover slopes. Any guess as to what it might would be foolish, beyond guessing that it is most likely not more than 5 dB combined for both drivers. The other reason is that the driver is padded, as revealed by that online manual. There is a resistor shunting the driver (10 ohms) and another in series with the parallel combination (4.7 ohms). The midrange driver was more sensitivity than it needed to be, which is common, and it was padded to lower its sensitivity, which is also common practice. Unless the replacement driver you choose happens to have sensitivity very close to that of the original driver, and also impedance very close to the original driver, you'll likely need to change the values of those two resistors. The crossover for the midrange consists of a single inductor and single capacitance (two in parallel is essentially one) in series with the resistor/driver network. You may get away with not changing these components, but it might sound funky if they are not changed such that the original high-frequency and low-frequency roll-offs are preserved. To do all of this correctly, you're basically designing the crossover filters for the midrange from scratch.

If I really wanted to preserve this speaker and if I thought that the driver you found is engineered expressly to be a drop-in replacement for the original, I would spend the $100 for it. In fact, I'd consider getting two of them and replacing the midrange in the other speaker at the same time. The reason is that even if the speaker doesn't end up sounding bad it will still sound different, and may even sound better than the original, but if it does, you still won't like it if the two speakers don't sound the same.

In short, the thing you are wanting to do is something that only people experienced at crossover design can really do well. For the rest of us, you cross your fingers and hope to find a true drop-in replacement and prepare yourself to pay whatever you have to pay for it. Otherwise, you put the speakers in the garage or the attic and then wait for another ten or twenty years before you can bring yourself to part with them.
 

restorer-john

Grand Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Messages
12,832
Likes
39,395
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Or you could just buy one. Fancy that eh? :)

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/233748850047?hash=item366c84657f:g:e40AAOSwzoJfisuw

s38.JPG
 
OP
M

michaelahess

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Messages
72
Likes
60

Not for a reasonable price though. These aren't exactly collectibles. Though now I wonder if I can part them out and sell the rest!

I've been very tempted to buy the Elac Debut Reference DBR62. So I'm having an internal struggle.

I've owned these, and they have worked great, for 20ish years. Sentimentality is a cruel mistress.
 
OP
M

michaelahess

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Messages
72
Likes
60
Bought a pair of the dbr62's for 540 on Amazon. We'll see if they are better, if not, I'll splurge on the $100 new replacement. Thanks for the recommendations and sanity check folks!
 

hex168

Senior Member
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
401
Likes
342
Replacement of a driver in a speaker is not simple. The crossover is designed to work correctly with that specific driver, and it will not work as intended with another driver unless you get lucky. Sometimes you do get lucky, but you're trying to avoid spending $100. Maybe you'll spend $50 instead, and save $50, but you'll likely end up with something that doesn't sound right and you'll end up spending the $100 in addition to the $50 that you already spent.

The manual that hex168 found provides some help. The sensitivity of the speaker overall is 89 dB, but this will not be the sensitivity of the midrange driver per se, for a couple of reasons. First, the tweeter and woofer both contribute to midrange output. The amount they contribute depends on their natural rolloff and on the crossover slopes. Any guess as to what it might would be foolish, beyond guessing that it is most likely not more than 5 dB combined for both drivers. The other reason is that the driver is padded, as revealed by that online manual. There is a resistor shunting the driver (10 ohms) and another in series with the parallel combination (4.7 ohms). The midrange driver was more sensitivity than it needed to be, which is common, and it was padded to lower its sensitivity, which is also common practice. Unless the replacement driver you choose happens to have sensitivity very close to that of the original driver, and also impedance very close to the original driver, you'll likely need to change the values of those two resistors. The crossover for the midrange consists of a single inductor and single capacitance (two in parallel is essentially one) in series with the resistor/driver network. You may get away with not changing these components, but it might sound funky if they are not changed such that the original high-frequency and low-frequency roll-offs are preserved. To do all of this correctly, you're basically designing the crossover filters for the midrange from scratch.

If I really wanted to preserve this speaker and if I thought that the driver you found is engineered expressly to be a drop-in replacement for the original, I would spend the $100 for it. In fact, I'd consider getting two of them and replacing the midrange in the other speaker at the same time. The reason is that even if the speaker doesn't end up sounding bad it will still sound different, and may even sound better than the original, but if it does, you still won't like it if the two speakers don't sound the same.

In short, the thing you are wanting to do is something that only people experienced at crossover design can really do well. For the rest of us, you cross your fingers and hope to find a true drop-in replacement and prepare yourself to pay whatever you have to pay for it. Otherwise, you put the speakers in the garage or the attic and then wait for another ten or twenty years before you can bring yourself to part with them.
Mr. Peabody is right. I did not take the time to read the schematic, but the mid itself is more than 89 dB. The best you can hope for without measuring or at least simming the new mid in your cabinet and modifying the crossover accordingly is that it would sort of work.
 
OP
M

michaelahess

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Messages
72
Likes
60
What about eq? Would this idea of using a different mid be too extreme fire that to work well?
 

Jim Matthews

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 25, 2021
Messages
1,051
Likes
1,289
Location
Taxachusetts
I've owned these, and they have worked great, for 20ish years. Sentimentality is a cruel mistress.

Amoritize the original cost over 20 years.

That was a good value. If one driver has failed already...
 

hex168

Senior Member
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
401
Likes
342
What about eq? Would this idea of using a different mid be too extreme fire that to work well?
The crossover in the speaker takes the acoustic response of each driver and makes it fit to a target curve. The target curves for each driver sum to the desired response for the speaker. This summing takes place by adding the level of each driver at each frequency, but the phase relationship between the drivers at each frequency determines how they add: in phase, they simply add, out of phase, they cancel, and in between it's ... in between. The slope of the rolloffs for each driver changes the phase. So, only by having the correct levels and crossover slopes for each driver do the drivers sum correctly. Without EQing each driver independently, i.e. with a separate amplifier channel for each, you do not have control over the response curve for each driver via EQ.

So, no, you probably cannot fix it with EQ. You would need to modify the crossover to get the new mid to hit the same target curve JBL ended up with for the combination of their crossover and their mid driver. It is much easier to buy the correct mid. If you want to redesign the speaker to use a different mid, by all means go for it, but it is not trivial. If you had a poorly designed speaker in the first place, you could make substitutions without harming it much, but that's not the case here.
 
Last edited:

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,898
Likes
4,736
It looks like these are a Audax-made drivers - eBay ad says "made in France" and Speaker Exchange has an AP100 part number as well as "made in France" on the magnet. If you want something that fits the hole correctly and don't care too much if the crossover gets a little messed up, look for an Audax AP100-series driver.
 
Top Bottom