Also guess so (neither a compression driver aficionado) and due to the displacement asymmetry of such non-linearity the 2nd harmonic is increased and not the 3rd:
www.audiosciencereview.com
I disagree with you that it is badly worded. The speaker is designed to be used with an EQ and as that EQ is only supplied for the DSP of specific models of HARMAN amplifiers the notice is correct. Also, the active crossover is not done by those amplifiers hence the wording and a signal processor is also correct. Don't you agree?
By not even understanding the Linkwitz Transform (not Transport!) you are making a fool of yourself on the subject.
It feels like it's a production unit to unit variation issue, because you'd expect the EQ to be optimising the speaker better than that, seems like the most likely explanation.
Apart from the obvious issues that people have already pointed out as being problems/issues with the 708i, the 708p was reviewed way back in Feb '21, quite a few speakers have been measured since then, I think it makes you more critical of speakers you see in the future because you've had more exposure to good speakers that have been reviewed with perfect or near perfect spinoramas (at various price points). I looked back at my comments in the 708p ASR thread and it looks like I quite liked the speaker, but my opinion has changed since then, probably for the reasons I mentioned.I'm not sure I understand all the negativity around this speaker relative to the original praise for the 708p. Just ditch the idea of the JBL dsp / amplification and roll your own using @pierre 's EQ, to get practically the same results as the 708p:
JBL 708i Monitor Review (Passive: Part 1)
Well, as close/tight/sealed as you can get ;) For the near field measurements of BR port and woofer (as in the example above) this is not necessary and would even make the result useless (you would sum up a sealed speaker with a BR port) :) I use speaker analysis (say bad things about other...
I'm doing exactly this with camillaDSP and ncore monoblocks. Loads more dsp flexibility plus much higher quality amplification.
-Jim
I like(ed) the speaker too. I helped my friend install them in his home theater, the end result sounded tremendous, it performs well in his home theater and and are really well suited to HT. That being said, we spent three frustrating weekends getting all of the bits and pieces to work. JBL was helpful, but we worked with two support people who were not on the same page. I remember joking that the theater construction took us less effort that the filter install. His install is single-wire. I know he was considering abandoning the approved ecosystem and going third-party DSP, I need to visit him again and ask how that went. And refresh my memory now that I have this review to color my judgement, perhaps back to clear.
(I'll just add that my opinions are based on the measurements, not actually having experienced the 708i/708p, but I think you already understood that was the case.)I like(ed) the speaker too. I helped my friend install them in his home theater, the end result sounded tremendous, it performs well in his home theater and and are really well suited to HT. That being said, we spent three frustrating weekends getting all of the bits and pieces to work. JBL was helpful, but we worked with two support people who were not on the same page. I remember joking that the theater construction took us less effort that the filter install. His install is single-wire. I know he was considering abandoning the approved ecosystem and going third-party DSP, I need to visit him again and ask how that went. And refresh my memory now that I have this review to color my judgement, perhaps back to clear.
Even for some residential applications, this is the primary advantage of the passive version. In my room, I use a total of 15 705i surround speakers augmenting my Salon2/Voice2 LCR using a JBL SDP-75 (re-badged Trinnov Altitude) controller - which provides the necessary DSP filters. The 705i were chosen over similar Revel models due to physically smaller dimensions, an important factor in a 20' by 14' by 9' room. And per the post above, the passive versions were chosen so I could just run 12 gauge Belden instead of AC plus balanced audio to every location - to say nothing of the reliability concerns associated with 30 separate amp modules of presumably cost-constrained design.
This is a comment also to @jjaaha post:
First @amirm thank you for testing the passiv version of the 708. Agree that its interesting to see what design considerations Harman takes when aiming to make at statement mid-field monitor. FUN! Their choice of port/tuning with the resulting resonances looks plain wrong but it is a deliberate compromise based on a knowledge base few if any other companies possess. Harman have published whitepapers on port design, both for medium sized speakers and all out PA subwoofers.
I agree with this poster. I have been trying to make it clear that this speaker is part of a system but it was measured in both occasions as just a module of that system. Naturally it is judged by the members as the finished speaker as they are accustomed to judge a speaker, not a speaker system. This is not fair for the manufacturer and frankly not a good show for ASR's reputation.
In my experience with installations, you should not trust a Crown to operate correctly without a very detailed analysis of the software versions and additional measures. I have learned to use BSS and third party amplifiers.
But if I am deaf enough, then things will be much cheaper.Ah, actually I think that to be very fair to the manufacturer. If the manufacturer does not include sufficient quidance for setting the system up, then the fault goes for the manufacturer. I have found that JBL Pro is not a very consistent and documenting manufacturer. Even in a fairly straightforward situations the documentation is lagging. You have to use field measurements and personal experience. That is a bad habit for a professional manufacturer.
I think your results showing single wire mode with the crown amps are important to show there doesn't appear to be the elevated treble using that configuration. When I get the units back I will flip the amp to single wire mode and take some measurements to confirm.
Well, from what you're saying & your experience that could certainly explain the less than optimum result of the EQ on the frequency response. (So it wouldn't have to be the unit to unit variation of the 708i that I mentioned).
I disagree. This is a pro speaker system for pros to set-up. If the “pro” doesn’t know how to set up a 2-way speaker using the DSP files he was given he should be sacked. Education is not a manufacturer’s job.
Because the tweeter level was too hot based on my acoustic measurements -- something no tech will be able to do, not easily anyway. What you saw was post compensation of the levels using the trim controls by me.
Education is manufacturer's job. They need to clearly document what needs to be done to configure this system. A link in the manual on where to get the software should not get a "page not found" on JBL website. That aside, the key here is mismatch of passive speaker response relative to EQ profile provided by Harman. No tech out there has a Klippel NFS to accurately assess this as I did. For all we know, every 708i out there is running suboptimally -- something that squarely falls in the domain of the manufacturer.
