JBL LSR305P MKii and Control 1 Pro Monitors Review

[fredoamigo]

This idea of determining if you're going to like how a speaker sounds based on a bunch of graphs and charts on an internet forum is nothing more than a pipe dream for suckers.

I wondered if you were a troll? Now I know for sure.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Time to ban the Bob.

 

[LTig]

It's perfectly possible to measure things right. In the development stage when the manufactures are engineering each sub-section. This is the job of the manufacturer. The job of the end user is to listen to the speaker with their ears, and decide if they like what they hear. After all that's what loudspeakers are created for. Listening with human ears. This requires the end user being physically in the same room as the speakers. This idea of determining if you're going to like how a speaker sounds based on a bunch of graphs and charts on an internet forum is nothing more than a pipe dream for suckers.

No matter how big this circle jerk gets, the reality if these truths will remain the same. That's the bottom line.

This is just how I thought about audio when I was a kid. Luckily things are not as hopeless as you think. There is a ton of scientific research one can rely on. Let me recommend the standard, a book every audiophile and music lover should read:

Floyd Toole: Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms​

Knowing that some of the best speakers available are designed based on the results of such research means that in fact measurements often beat our ears and brains which are known to fool us much more than we know. Research has for example shown that there is a quite universal preference for flat on axis frequency response if the listeners do not know which speaker they hear. When the same speakers are played sighted the preferences are very different for several groups of listeners. This shows that even listening to a speaker in a room does not mean that the listener makes an informed decision if he knows which speaker is playing.

Let me point you to this thread: New Speakers Advice. Member @altamira asked for advice to buy speakers for desktop listening and finally bought Neumann KH80DSP recommended by other members based on very good measurements. Now read his post how happy he is with them although he never listened to them before. So do not underestimate the power of measurements.

 

[Thomas savage]

You guys are only going to convince absolute novices in the world of audio with these responses. People who know absolutely nothing and come here to learn. Everyone else is not going to buy it. Good luck.

Good luck Bob, no one buys hi end audio that's why you are all so desperate.

 

[Bob Carter]

This is just how I thought about audio when I was a kid. Luckily things are not as hopeless as you think. There is a ton of scientific research one can rely on. Let me recommend the standard, a book every audiophile and music lover should read:

Floyd Toole: Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms​

Knowing that some of the best speakers available are designed based on the results of such research means that in fact measurements often beat our ears and brains which are known to fool us much more than we know. Research has for example shown that there is a quite universal preference for flat on axis frequency response if the listeners do not know which speaker they hear. When the same speakers are played sighted the preferences are very different for several groups of listeners. This shows that even listening to a speaker in a room does not mean that the listener makes an informed decision if he knows which speaker is playing.

Let me point you to this thread: New Speakers Advice. Member @altamira asked for advice to buy speakers for desktop listening and finally bought Neumann KH80DSP recommended by other members based on very good measurements. Now read his post how happy he is with them although he never listened to them before. So do not underestimate the power of measurements.

That book is nothing more than a marketing brochure sponsored by the same corporation funding this Klippel machine for Amir. So it's no surprise you're sold on the possibilities. Harman's finest expertise lies in the marketing department. Not the lab.

 

[Thomas savage]

Time to ban the Bob.

I'm back from the pub...

And yes Dennis you are right .

 

[Thomas savage]

You guys are only going to convince absolute novices in the world of audio with these responses. People who know absolutely nothing and come here to learn. Everyone else is not going to buy it. Good luck.

Night night darling the masses will decide.

 

[Thomas savage]

That book is nothing more than a marketing brochure sponsored by the same corporation funding this Klippel machine for Amir. So it's no surprise you're sold on the possibilities. Harman's finest expertise lies in the marketing department. Not the lab.

Ok , so how real do you want it. Real real your a sad pathetic moron that is hopelessly caught up in a distant identity. It's beyond being a man it's beyond being anything other than the safe place you need.

Grow up , get a life , understand the world and even audio not only is not about you but is hopelessly insufficient when it comes to filling your self oriented need. Find something else , find a man find a woman ... Find stamps .... Find anything
But don't come here with your incessant need.

 

[LTig]

That book is nothing more than a marketing brochure sponsored by the same corporation funding this Klippel machine for Amir. So it's no surprise you're sold on the possibilities. Harman's finest expertise lies in the marketing department. Not the lab.

This book is a summary of the research done so far, and includes 17 pages with literally hundreds of references to the original research papers for everyone to read if he wants. Ignorance is not always a bliss ...

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Nice to see. It seems that the two speakers are opposite in how the voice register would sound like. I presume the Pro monitor sounds "polite" with the large upper midrange dip, while the 305 might sound a slight harsh on some female voices. A pity it appears to resonate in the cabinet audibly. Can it be estimated at what frequency the cabinet resonance occurred?

I think it's the baffle that resonates. No audiophile tested the LSR305s and found that to be the cause. Can be remedied by removing the baffle and filling it with some kind of damping material (caulk, maybe).

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Hey Amir, how about a picture of the measuring rig so we can all have our fix of measurement porn.

 

[MZKM]

Ok , so how real do you want it. Real real your a sad pathetic moron that is hopelessly caught up in a distant identity. It's beyond being a man it's beyond being anything other than the safe place you need.

Grow up , get a life , understand the world and even audio not only is not about you but is hopelessly insufficient when it comes to filling your self oriented need. Find something else , find a man find a woman ... Find stamps .... Find anything
But don't come here with your incessant need.

Dude, chillax a bit; you good?
No need to be so...savage.

 

[Gyroscopics]

Too late in the thread, but congrats Amir on your first speaker review. I myself own and love the JBL 306P MKii which is the bigger brother of the speaker reviewed. I own other "audiophile" and more expensive speakers but the the 306p MKii earned it's place in my collection. It sits in my 2nd floor game room along with my other 2ch speaker systems.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

It's a good thing the trolls are so transparent...obvious agenda. Obvious idiocy...totally visible for anyone with at least half a brain to see. No wonder there's a market for $70000 speaker cables.

 

[Doodski]

It's a good thing the trolls are so transparent...obvious agenda. Obvious idiocy...totally visible for anyone with at least half a brain to see. No wonder there's a market for $70000 speaker cables.

His intention was twisted and apparently bad. I was surprised he was not K-lined earlier.

 

[amirm]

Might I attempt to rephrase what I understand to be a good point, Bob is making?

This concerns ONLY active speaker reviews:

If the battery of measurements Amir is taking and/or the subset of information he presents to us in graphical form do not allow us to detect hissing, then clearly whatever other merits the reviews may have - and I believe there are many - it is not sufficient to come to a proper appraisal of the system, let alone base a purchasing decision on. Hissing - for me as well - is a knockout negative.

Might we not then supplement the review with another test (that may very well not involve the Kippel system at all) to look for hiss @ x meters on-axis of the tweeter @ y db or W? Wouldnt integrating such a test - which I cant imagine to be too hard as these are easily detectable things by ear - alleviate our concerns?

Precise positioning to a tweeter is a bit tricky with the robotic system. One wrong digit in position field or button and the thing will go smack into the tweeter! I can leave the grill on and measure that. I have to build a different microphone boom so I can position it by hand.

That aside, I can certainly do this and agree there is usefulness in it. So stand by....

 

[dukanvadet]

It's perfectly possible to measure things right. In the development stage when the manufactures are engineering each sub-section. This is the job of the manufacturer. And this is precisely who this Klippel machine was developed for. A tool for aiding the manufacturers in the design phase. The job of the end user is to listen to the speaker with their ears, and decide if they like what they hear. After all that's what loudspeakers are created for. Listening with human ears. This requires the end user being physically in the same room as the speakers. This idea of determining if you're going to like how a speaker sounds based on a bunch of graphs and charts on an internet forum is nothing more than a pipe dream for suckers.

No matter how big this circle jerk gets, the reality if these truths will remain the same. That's the bottom line.

Why dont you measure the electronics yourself, even if its not anyway near as important as acoustic output of the complete speaker i guess it might be of some interest.
Amir have put in most of the labour and given us measurements that are more comprehensive than any other review site or magazine that i have seen. If you want more you can ask nicely, DIY or STFU.

 

[DownUnderGazza]

@amirm, fantastic effort, amazing commitment to Audio Science, thank you for all that you do!

 

[amirm]

Hey Amir, how about a picture of the measuring rig so we can all have our fix of measurement porn.

I have to clean up the garage first. It is too darn cold to do that right now....

 

[Audio Monkey]

I am new to forum and have been reading the reviews since I discovered the site about a month ago. I quickly saw this thread in the morning, but it seems it has taken a turn for the for the worse! I can understand people will have different opinions, but hopefully we can agree to disagree. I don't know the history with Bob, but it's clear his opinions are not welcome. He's obviously not contributing in a way that others find helpful or insightful...

I find the measurements to be a useful input to the overall purchasing equation, including factors such as price, fit and finish (particularly, for a speaker), functionality for electronics, etc.

It's great to have a new source of detailed measurements!

I am not an engineer nor claim to be an expert, but it would seems that speaker performance is likely the most difficult to quantify relative to other parts of the audio chain. I agree that most people prefer a flat response, but there are certainly other variables.

I am curious, can you measure why electrostatic and planar speakers sound quite different that dynamic drivers (I am asking out of curiosity)?

@Amir, great work and congratulations! Unless I missed it, I am wondering if your new measurement gear is capable of evaluating cumulative spectral decay? I believe this info would help identify any resonance and also measure transient accuracy?

Thanks!