New Speakers Advice

[altamira]

Hi everyone, new here. Need your advices/suggestions.
Im making my first purchase of new speakers, Amp and Dac after 20 years with my old tiny Cambridge Soundworks 5.1
They are going dead
Since i never payed much attention to technical details about sound systems, equipment, etc... im a bit overwhelmed by the options.
I´ve made a small search about what might be in my budget and sound good. First of all i intend to spend around 500-600 Euros (around 550-650 US Dollars).
First come movies/music then games (to be honest im not a frequent gamer). About music I listen to all kinds of music (classical hard rock, motown/funk, jazz, classical ocasionally, and sometimes i go ballistic and listen to old electronic music, new trance, like armin Van Buren just to enjoy the different electronic sounds and that energizing umpf). About movies they are also varied in genres. so let me make this short for now. This is what im looking for right now (options):

Speakers
- Wharfedale 11.1
- Wharfedale 11.2
- Q acoustics concept 20
Amplifiers/receivers
- Onkyo A-9110 ou 9130
- Marantz PM5005
- Cambridge Audio Topaz SR10
- Yamaha RN303D
DAC
- Topping D10

For now im not contemplating a subwoofer, but i would like to hear your opinions. Any better alternatives?

Thank you

PS: It will be to connect to my desktop pc, and the speakers to be sitting on my desktop.

 

[q3cpma]

Obligatory post about considering active solutions, especially in your use case (ditching the old amp and nearfield setup).

 

[NTomokawa]

Yamaha HS7? No idea how much they retail for in the EU.

 

[altamira]

Yamaha HS7 around 190 Euros each speaker. The thing is doesnt active solutions limit the possible future for customization?

 

[NTomokawa]

customization

What would you mean by customization? You could always play with the sound by applying EQ and DSP.

 

[Doodski]

You're on the right track. I've never heard those speakers and really that's a personal choice anyway. Keep a eye on the speaker impedance rating for matching to the amplifier and the amplifier power rating for both 8 Ohms and 4 Ohms. Some of the specs for those amps is vague and even different for EU and US specification. I prefer North American and European speakers for mainstream stuff.

 

[q3cpma]

There's a lot to choose from at that price range. You indeed have the HS7 with no real problem, and absolutely no hiss at 400€/pair, the Mackie MR624 should also be considered (the MR824 were measured and are very similar to the HS7). Since it's a nearfield setup, I won't recommend the JBLs and Kali that can suffer from quite a bit of hiss; sadly, since they're very good otherwise.

I guess you can also include something like the Adam T and Presonus Eris XT series, though I've not seen any measurements.

With those recommendation, you still have enough left for a do-it-all interface like the Focusrite Scarlett Solo or Audient iD4.

 

[NTomokawa]

Mackie

I read that Mackie's customer support is quite mediocre...

 

[digicidal]

Yamaha HS7 around 190 Euros each speaker. The thing is doesnt active solutions limit the possible future for customization?

If you get good active monitors... you don't really have to worry about "customization" - beyond simple EQ adjustment or a few DSP tweaks perhaps. With passive speakers it's entirely possible (even likely in some cases) to partner them with electronics which fail to perform - with actives, the designer selected the optimal amplification for each driver involved and tuned everything together as a whole.

Granted it can be much more enjoyable, from a hobbyist perspective, to constantly shop for gear and upgrade things... but from a pure audio production standpoint - much less so. If you have a much larger budget down the road, and/or needs which aren't met by your current monitors... you can just sell them and get a higher performing set. In general active monitors are cheaper, yet hold their values somewhat better than passive stand mount speakers. At least that's been my experience.

 

[q3cpma]

I read that Mackie's customer support is quite mediocre...

I don't have any experience with it, sadly. I guess you're left with the Yamahas, if that's the case.

If you get good active monitors... you don't really have to worry about "customization" - beyond simple EQ adjustment or a few DSP tweaks perhaps. With passive speakers it's entirely possible (even likely in some cases) to partner them with electronics which fail to perform - with actives, the designer selected the optimal amplification for each driver involved and tuned everything together as a whole.

Granted it can be much more enjoyable, from a hobbyist perspective, to constantly shop for gear and upgrade things... but from a pure audio production standpoint - much less so. If you have a much larger budget down the road, and/or needs which aren't met by your current monitors... you can just sell them and get a higher performing set. In general active monitors are cheaper, yet hold their values somewhat better than passive stand mount speakers. At least that's been my experience.

While you're right about the whole, I would say that the "amp matching the driver" thing is sadly not exploited very much. You have some people like PSI audio claiming to use such a thing through servo controlled woofers, but that's all that's coming to mind. The gains of analog active crossovers are more into steeper slopes and the benefits of bi-amplification (no passive Xover massive power losses, way better damping).

What you can be sure of, on the other hand, is that at this price point, the usual suspects (TI or STMicro chipamps) will be used without any problem. The speaker/driver distortion will always be higher than the amp's, anyway.

 

[altamira]

wow thank you for the comments. the brands you all talked about only yamaha is known to me. But like i said im a total begginer in terms of speakers brands, technologies, performance, etc... The ideia of passive speakers (and not "mandatory" at all) was suggested by a friend just because with an dedicated amp/reciever i could possible find a better one than those who come in the active speakers and in the future use it/match it with other pair of passive speakers of my liking. But as i see and you are saying this matching is not so linear. But like i said im still learning and i for sure want the best sound for the budget i have. Im open. Those yamaha HS7 seem nice. Im also undicided about a subwoofer or not depending on the speakers.

 

[NTomokawa]

Since you're in Europe, could you possibly get some Neumann/Genelec at discount prices?

 

[Doodski]

wow thank you for the comments. the brands you all talked about only yamaha is known to me. But like i said im a total begginer in terms of speakers brands, technologies, performance, etc... The ideia of passive speakers (and not "mandatory" at all) was suggested by a friend just because with an dedicated amp/reciever i could possible find a better one than those who come in the active speakers and in the future use it/match it with other pair of passive speakers of my liking. But as i see and you are saying this matching is not so linear. But like i said im still learning and i for sure want the best sound for the budget i have. Im open. Those yamaha HS7 seem nice. Im also undicided about a subwoofer or not depending on the speakers.

Listen to the speakers and then decide and then you will know what kind of amplifier you will require.

 

[q3cpma]

Since you're in Europe, could you possibly get some Neumann/Genelec at discount prices?

Discount doesn't have the same meaning in pro audio and hi-fi. You won't find good enough bargains to fit his budget; otherwise I would have said "eat pasta for a month and buy yourself some KH120s or 8030s".

 

[NTomokawa]

"eat pasta for a month and buy yourself some KH120s or 8030s"

Ah yes, you're also in Europe. Indeed you know about such things much better than I would.

Reminds me of eating ramen for two months to buy the new Nikkor 70-200E.

 

[NTomokawa]

Listen to the speakers and then decide and then you will know what kind of amplifier you will require.

It's a pity that few power amplifiers measure as well as headphone amplifiers. With headphones, one could pick an amp from Amir's list and go with it. It appears that we are still a ways from doing the same with power amps.

 

[q3cpma]

wow thank you for the comments. the brands you all talked about only yamaha is known to me. But like i said im a total begginer in terms of speakers brands, technologies, performance, etc... The ideia of passive speakers (and not "mandatory" at all) was suggested by a friend just because with an dedicated amp/reciever i could possible find a better one than those who come in the active speakers and in the future use it/match it with other pair of passive speakers of my liking. But as i see and you are saying this matching is not so linear. But like i said im still learning and i for sure want the best sound for the budget i have. Im open. Those yamaha HS7 seem nice. Im also undicided about a subwoofer or not depending on the speakers.

While this "seperate upgrading" thing might be useful, it's honestly not worth your time and the technological setback. Here's a nice set of ressource about why active has been the future for a long time (not even mentioning digital active, which is the future of naow):
https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-academy/2017/may/the-benefits-of-an-active-crossover
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/crossovers.htm
https://sound-au.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

 

[digicidal]

While you're right about the whole, I would say that the "amp matching the driver" thing is sadly not exploited very much. You have some people like PSI audio claiming to use such a thing through servo controlled woofers, but that's all that's coming to mind. The gains of analog active crossovers are more into steeper slopes and the benefits of bi-amplification (no passive Xover massive power losses, way better damping).

What you can be sure of, on the other hand, is that at this price point, the usual suspects (TI or STMicro chipamps) will be used without any problem. The speaker/driver distortion will always be higher than the amp's, anyway.

Well, at this price level... I was merely referring to the emphasized in the quote. Sure at higher levels there are more nuanced amplification selections likely, more complex DSP implementations possible, etc. but at this budget level... just the highlighted benefits are significant - IMO at least.

 

[NTomokawa]

active has been the future for a long time

I went active because I got fed up with trying to "match" power/integrated amps to passive speakers. Figured the speaker manufacturer themselves would know how to design and match amplifiers to their own drivers better than anything else.

Not sure whether that makes actual sense, but I sleep better at night.

 

[q3cpma]

It's a pity that few power amplifiers measure as well as headphone amplifiers. With headphones, one could pick an amp from Amir's list and go with it. It appears that we are still a ways from doing the same with power amps.

Well, you have the Behringer A800 for something that works nicely without too much THD+N. But really, I wonder if I could find some Hypex UcD base stereo amps; only the Ncores get the spotlight.