Is Soekris dac1321 worth buying?

[Moriarty]

Hi,
This is my first post here. Hello everyone!
I need your help. Since I read ASR for some time and value your honest opinions, I believe your advise can help me a lot.

Long story short: I’m going to buy a really good DAC, with high quality, pleasant sound I could live with for years. Is Soekris dac1321 a good choice? Is it (almost?) as good as its bigger brothers? Or should I collect money for something better, i.e. Soekris dac1421 or RME ADI-2 DAC?

I listen to mainly classical music and acoustic jazz. I have nice valve amplifier (PP EL34), 3-way loudspeakers with high quality drivers (SB Acoustics, Satori line), but my CD-player is a weak link in this chain. It is Marantz CD6006 with CS4398 DAC chip – nothing special, really. I don’t have good headphones, listen to music only via loudspeakers, so I don’t need a DAC with head amp. No reason to pay for this if not necessary.

Few weeks ago I was pretty sure RME ADI-2 DAC is best possible choice. It’s expensive, it has head amp I don’t need, but sound is so sweet and functionality so unique it justify everything. The problem is, 990 EUR it’s really a lot of money to me and I don’t have it now. Maybe I would be able to collect such cash and buy this DAC during Black Monday promo or next year - probably risking divorce - but you never know… Fortunately, few days ago someone recommended me Soekris and I’ve found out many people love these DACs. And dac1321 is quite affordable – costs circa half RME ADI-2 DAC price.

I noticed most people buy more expensive Soekris DACs with head amp, but also with better specs. According to producer, „entry level” dac1321 in not entry level at all when it come to playing music. It has „the same performance and quality”. But I noticed dac1321 THD and jitter levels are higher and according to some guys, more expensive dac1421 and dac1541 sounds better.

My question is: how big is this difference? How important? Does it change sound so much it really matter?

I know this place is numbers oriented and I know measurements tells a lot. A lot, but – this what I know too – not everything. I hope you have some experience with Soekris DACs and I would like to know your opinion.

Now I can buy Soekris DAC 10 proc. cheaper, there is „Spring Sale” just now (untill May 24): 396 EUR (520 euro including tax and shipping – I live in Poland). Still a lot of money, but not so much for a brand new R-2R Soekris DAC.

What do you think? Buy it now or collect money for sth better?

 

[Veri]

Now I can buy Soekris DAC 10 proc. cheaper, there is „Spring Sale” just now (untill May 24): 396 EUR (520 euro including tax and shipping – I live in Poland). Still a lot of money, but not so much for a brand new R-2R Soekris DAC.

What do you think? Buy it now or collect money for sth better?

I would personally keep saving up for the RME. Otherwise, you can get a khadas tone board from audiophonics for sub €100 price range which gets you really really far for DAC alone, since you don't seem to need head amp or fancy features.

 

[Moriarty]

Thank you, Veri. Have you heard both Soekris dac1321 and RME ADI-2 DAC? According to you Soekris' sound isn't worth its price or just RME' sound is simply much better? I heard some opinions Soekris bigger brothers (dac1421 and dac1541) are more or less on the same level as RME ADI-2 DAC (all sounds great, just have a different sound signature) and dac1321 offer very similar sound quality, so...

Hard choice, as always .

 

[andreasmaaan]

I would be surprised if all the DACs you're looking at (RME, Soekris, Khadas) don't sound exactly the same. If all you need is a DAC (i.e. no need for headphone amp, DSP, etc.), there should be no need to spend more than $100 or so IMHO.

 

[mansr]

I would be surprised if all the DACs you're looking at (RME, Soekris, Khadas) don't sound exactly the same.

The Soekris is a ridiculous discrete ladder contraption. It quite possibly sounds a bit worse than the others.

 

[andreasmaaan]

The Soekris is a ridiculous discrete ladder contraption. It quite possibly sounds a bit worse than the others.

Actually, you may be right. The 1421 was measured here. I'd remembered it performing better than it did. The 1321 is spec'd lower than the 1421, so we can assume it measures worse.

 

[Moriarty]

I would be surprised if all the DACs you're looking at (RME, Soekris, Khadas) don't sound exactly the same. If all you need is a DAC (i.e. no need for headphone amp, DSP, etc.), there should be no need to spend more than $100 or so IMHO.

Thank you for your opinion, andreasmaaan, but I can hardly agree - my personal experience is different . If you were right, I should stick to my Marantz CD6006 and its Cirrus Logic DAC... The problem is, I had an opportunity to listen to different, better sounding (to me, of course) DACs.

This is exactly why I'm looking around now and try find something better (and in my financial range).

 

[andreasmaaan]

Thank you for your opinion, andreasmaaan, but I can hardly agree - my personal experience is different . If you were right, I should stick to my Marantz CD6006 and its Cirrus Logic DAC... The problem is, I had an opportunity to listen to different, better sounding (to me, of course) DACs.

I wasn't saying these DACs wouldn't sound better than your current DAC. I had mis-remembered how the Soekris 1421 measured, thinking it was in a similar league to the RME and the Khadas.

I'm certainly saying that you won't hear a (not imagined) difference between the Khadas and the RME, however

 

[Frank Dernie]

Thank you for your opinion, andreasmaaan, but I can hardly agree - my personal experience is different . If you were right, I should stick to my Marantz CD6006 and its Cirrus Logic DAC... The problem is, I had an opportunity to listen to different, better sounding (to me, of course) DACs.

This is exactly why I'm looking around now and try find something better (and in my financial range).

Well I wouldn’t expect properly engineered DACs to sound different either, and a ladder DAC to be technically inferior to others, but you may like it.
If you personally have found something you prefer to the Marantz then that is what you should buy, not ask for opinions from others, with all due respect. That way you will still be happy even if your preference is only the placebo effect.
My own DAC evaluations were on DACS between £1200 and £14000 and they all sounded the same to me on a high quality system.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Thank you for your opinion, andreasmaaan, but I can hardly agree - my personal experience is different . If you were right, I should stick to my Marantz CD6006 and its Cirrus Logic DAC... The problem is, I had an opportunity to listen to different, better sounding (to me, of course) DACs.

This is exactly why I'm looking around now and try find something better (and in my financial range).

So what were these better sounding DACs? Do you realize how other factors than sound effect your assessment of sound quality if you know what you are listening to at the time?

 

[Moriarty]

Guys, you are really ruthless judges!

I'm certainly saying that you won't hear a (not imagined) difference between the Khadas and the RME, however

Well, it is a very serious statement... I hope you are not right

 

[andreasmaaan]

Well, it is a very serious statement... I hope you are not right

Haha, why not hope that I am right and have saved you around $1k?

Why not try to listening to a 8th-generation digital copy through the Khadas and seeing if you can tell it apart from the original?

You might not believe my statement to be quite so "serious" after that

 

[Moriarty]

But, seriously... What are you doing here, on ASR site, if you believe all DAC sounds the same, or very similar?

Anyway, thank you all for your comments. It's always good to know different point of view and you are definitely out of my bubble.

Now I would like to know opinion based on listening to Soekris dac1321, if possible, please.

 

[garbulky]

Thank you for your opinion, andreasmaaan, but I can hardly agree - my personal experience is different . If you were right, I should stick to my Marantz CD6006 and its Cirrus Logic DAC... The problem is, I had an opportunity to listen to different, better sounding (to me, of course) DACs.

This is exactly why I'm looking around now and try find something better (and in my financial range).

Over here most people stick to measurements and DBT tests. Therefore talk of things like sound is quickly discounted here unless testing is done. The truth is that with DBT tests it is hard to hear a difference between a $30 piece of gear and a $2000 piece of gear. They all tend to sound the same.

What I’m getting at is that I don’t usually see people describe things in terms of sound over here. Perhaps too worried about expressing a subjective opinion.

I’m subjective meaning I evaluate gear by simply using them like I would in regular use and see if I like it better. Though realizing my senses can be easily influenced and biased it has not reduced my enjoyment of the gear. I freely admit my impressions of gear I listen to. Having said that I have no scientific basis for proving these impressions as free of mistake or bias and I don’t claim they are.

 

[Frank Dernie]

But, seriously... What are you doing here, on ASR site, if you believe all DAC sounds the same, or very similar?

Well this is Audio Science Review and there is no measured mechanism by which any properly engineered DACs could sound different (only the placebo effect)
There are loads and loads of Hi-Fi enthusiast forums where science isn’t considered and any old witchcraft and myth are regurgitated without the least proper comparisons being made.
In the case of a DAC most are fine. If you want facilities like a built in preamp of headphone amp or multiple inputs, or you like the styling those are reasons for choosing a particular model, not sound quality.
I would not write this about speakers, power amps or headphones though, they make big audible and measurable differences, but not DACs

 

[Moriarty]

Haha, why not hope that I am right and have saved you around $1k?

Because I love when Herreweghe conduct Mozart "Requiem", John Coltrane play "Lonnie's Lament" and Astrud Gilberto sing "Corcovado", but I also think this wonderful music could sound a bit better than on my Marantz CD6006... And now you try destroy my dreams .

I wanna hear more, with better quality, it's simple.

 

[flipflop]

Perhaps too worried about expressing a subjective opinion.

All opinions are subjective.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Because I love when Herreweghe conduct Mozart "Requiem", John Coltrane play "Lonnie's Lament" and Astrud Gilberto sing "Corcovado", but I also think this wonderful music could sound a bit better than on my Marantz CD6006... And now you try destroy my dreams .

I wanna hear more, with better quality, it's simple.

The speakers and room make huge difference to the sound quality. The amp much less, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers at the sound level you use. DACs little or nothing.
Better speakers, optimised position of speakers in room (free) make a big difference as will acoustic room treatment.

 

[andreasmaaan]

But, seriously... What are you doing here, on ASR site, if you believe all DAC sounds the same, or very similar?

FWIW, I have both the RME Adi-2 DAC (€1k) and the Apple USB-C Dongle (€10) here. They sound the same to me through my NAD and Audio-Technica headphones and IEMs, although I haven't painstakingly attempted to test myself double-blind to try to discern a difference, and I don't listen loud on headphones as I use them mostly for watching movies and doing occasional quick mixing work for short films etc. that are intended for online viewing, i.e. no need for especially high fidelity (otherwise I would do it on monitors, but not necessarily a better DAC than the Apple dongle).

The inbuilt Realtek soundcard on my laptop does seem to sound slightly different (worse), although again I haven't DBT'd myself properly to confirm this.

The one area where the Adi-2 DAC does (again, speaking only anecdotally) audibly outperform the Apple Dongle is when its output is fed to an Analogue Devices ADAU1701 which I use as a crossover for my home speakers. I suspect that's because the output of the Apple USB-C dongle isn't high enough, which results in more noise in the ADAU1701's AD/DA conversion.

I've also had a HiFiMeDIY ESS9038 DAC through the same systems and that sounded clearly worse than the alternatives in all cases.

 

[Moriarty]

The speakers and room make a huge difference to the sound quality. The amp much less, as long as it is powerful enough to drive the speakers at the sound level you use.

Oh, not at all! There is a HUGE difference between even THE SAME AMPLIFIER, but with different valves only! It's not some theory, I know what I'm talking about. I have a valve amplifier. When I replaced modern valves with highly valued NOS counterparts produced in the last century, the sound has changed a lot for the better. Even my wife, who did not know that I replaced valves, asked why music now sounds much better.