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What kind did you use?
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Is REL being more 'musical' than SVS a myth, or is there some real science behind this?
- Thread starter Hotwetrat
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In the cable, and made to measure by an engineer who also did the calculations. It is similar to the Harrison Labs FMod.
So why make an LFE input separately? Anyway.... (Biden voice) That's why I sad im new expert
So the Arendal would also work in a 2.1 system well for music.
On some SVS subs, there is a high pass filter on the non-LFE labeled outputs. Check the manual for the sub you are considering to find out the difference.
I've reached out to the customer service of Arendal, they said the sub doesn't have hpl, but wrote this "Our subwoofers have a lowpass filter / crossover, so yes you can set it to 80hz and let your speakers handle the higher frequencies. You will be perfectly safe with that."
I saw in video that with high passing (?) the bookshelf speaker would be relieved from producing the lows and the sub would take over that job, thus having more power for the speakers.
I'm new to this area of audio tech, would this crossover setting do the job or is it different?
I've used two subwoofers, an array of four, and find that a Genelec subwoofer crossed over around 50-60hz is excellent when placed immediately behind me. It sounds so perfectly integrated that roommates don't know when it's on because the 8260 speakers just sound like they are playing really deep and I have to toggle it to show them the difference.
That being said, there is only one sweet spot for bass, and most people aren't going to use a subwoofer "nearfield."
This is not high passing in my understanding. The sub has a low pass filter and that is it.
This thread seems to be almost entirely about REL vs SVS. For the budget conscious who still want good looks and quality, I would like to mention the KEF Kube series, with 300 watt classs D amplification, and dsp to prevent distortion when it gets loud and low. Current prices in the Netherlands are about 400 euros for the 8 inch model, 500 euros for the 10 inch model and 600 euros for the 12 inch model. I bought an 8 inch Kube8b for my study, but am now using it because the B&W PV1d in my main system died. It does not go down quite as low and loud as the PV1d but it integrated very well and I am perfectly happy for now. Chart is of the Kube 8b in the front left corner and the Quad 2805s, plus Antimode 8033 dsp eq. for the sub (using wide area eq with multiple measurements). Once my PV1d has been repaired I will use both subs in a dual mono sub set up.
The problem with any REL vs SVS comparison is the SVS wins easily. REL is for people with more money than brains. WAIT!! Did I just say that? Oh, I mean people who want a good looking sub with the REL logo on the driver.
Thats not true at all .
It depends .REL is really easy to integrate with a main loudspeaker thats unfiltered and closed.
You have to have a real HP filter for the main loudspeakers with SVS subwoofers because they may use a crossover filtering thats steeper than REL. And no, a steeper crossover is NOT nesessary better than a REL 12/dB oct, it depends on many things.
The ability to integrate well with the main loudspeakers is the most important thing for a good sound.
An example = A subwoofer with inbuilt 24dB/oct LP filtering is gonna integrate BAD with a main loudspeaker thats closed with no HP crossover beacuse its gonna roll off with about 12 dB/oct acoustically from its resonance frequency. Here is RELs inverted 12dB/oct LP crossover a much better choice to get a good sound. Its the total acoustical integration that counts, because the subwoofer dont play alone.
If one has a good external crossover , with both LP and HP its much easier to get good results with 24 dB/oct filtering or steeper. And no- a THX homecinema crossover is not good enough to play two channel music because its in mono.
Edit : SVS 1000 pro manual shows variable LP filtering 6 dB, 12 dB or 24 dB wich is a good thing.
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It's for people who put brand over form over function... I mean, people who want a sub that is "musical" and 'fast' and never 'too big for the room' (because it doesn't go deep enough compared to competitors.)
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For the music I listen to, sub 20hz does come up. And while SVS prices keep going up, it's still the better value from room to room, unless you wanna do diy.
I would read data-bass.com "Subwoofer myths article" as a starting point
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As a term it definitely dosen't have a place. A well designed subwoofer plays "fast" as they describe it, whether sealed, ported, PRs, TL, etc.I would read data-bass.com "Subwoofer myths article" as a starting point
I'm super pleased with my pair of SVS SB2000's.
Awesome bass for such a small box.
Awesome bass for such a small box.
I just bought the 6 pack of carbon special… setup the dual line array and connected to my Trinnov amethyst. But for the sake of argument it’s irrelevant as the measurement was the same with Trinnov or direct.
Here is rew measurement. To rule out the room i then took measurement with a single Perlisten d15s.
I can’t explain the drop or shelf’s on the rel. makes no sense. Any ideas ?
Orange is rel and teal is Perlisten. This happened no matter where I placed either sub. It happened whether I used 1 or 3 or 6 rels. The shape was always the same.
Here is rew measurement. To rule out the room i then took measurement with a single Perlisten d15s.
I can’t explain the drop or shelf’s on the rel. makes no sense. Any ideas ?
Orange is rel and teal is Perlisten. This happened no matter where I placed either sub. It happened whether I used 1 or 3 or 6 rels. The shape was always the same.
Attachments
The REL is a true sub, only <80 Hz or so.
It looks like a notch filter.
If set at 75 Hz
Peak 35 Hz
-3 dB ~ 20 and 50 Hz
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Simply misuse of the term "crossover"....half a crossover is only half a crossover.
I am not an REL fan, but we should not forget where they and we have come from. REL began producing subwoofers many years ago, and primarily for use in stereo systems that did not have a line output. For those situations a high level connection is the only option. I agree that a line level connection with a high pass filter is preferable, but very few integrated stereo amplifiers allow for this. And even if you use a separate pre/power combo, you are still unlikely to have a high pass filter. In fact, if I remember correctly earlier REL subs did actually have an inbuilt high pass filter. As I have said before, it really is a shame that only few power amplifiers come with high pass filters. My son's excellent pro audio Yamaha P2500s does, so why can consumer power amps not have them?
I prefer the high level inputs if the sub is designed around them.
The speaker load determines the signal phase. Since the speaker load of8 Ohm is much larger than the sub 150 kOhm it determines the phase. The sub will see the same phase as the speaker. If the sub is fast enough it will follow the speaker in lock step (or close).
With line level the output is always 0 phase relative to the speaker which may be 0 +/- 30+ deg. If you set the sub in phase at any single point it my not be at another.
This is not a big issue since if the sub only covers 30-60 Hz the pass may not change much.
But in some cases it may swing.
In this case ~ +/- 35 deg 20-80Hz
From Stereophile
www.stereophile.com
The speaker load determines the signal phase. Since the speaker load of8 Ohm is much larger than the sub 150 kOhm it determines the phase. The sub will see the same phase as the speaker. If the sub is fast enough it will follow the speaker in lock step (or close).
With line level the output is always 0 phase relative to the speaker which may be 0 +/- 30+ deg. If you set the sub in phase at any single point it my not be at another.
This is not a big issue since if the sub only covers 30-60 Hz the pass may not change much.
But in some cases it may swing.
In this case ~ +/- 35 deg 20-80Hz
From Stereophile
Harbeth Super HL5plus loudspeaker Measurements
Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Harbeth Super HL5plus's frequency response in the farfield; and an Earthworks QTC-40, with its small, ¼"-diameter capsule, for the nearfield responses.
www.stereophile.com
TurtlePaul
Addicted to Fun and Learning
This is bad science. The sub high level connection, regardless of its impedance, sees the phase of the amp. The woofer of the main speaker driver is behind at least an inductor and parallel with a capacitor and also often in series with a baffle step network. All of these effect phase. The sub is between an 8 ohm speaker and a ~0 ohm amp output impedance, so it just sees the amps output.
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