Is REL being more 'musical' than SVS a myth, or is there some real science behind this?

[Chrispy]

I am tempted by the F25 but may run out of juice from the wall...

You can always try and increase that part

 

[Dialectic]

You can always try and increase that part

Getting to be too much of a PITA at that point.

I like that Salk makes it available in white.

 

[Chrispy]

Getting to be too much of a PITA at that point.

I like that Salk makes it available in white.

More like you need to beef up your electrical to provide such....

 

[Dialectic]

More like you need to beef up your electrical to provide such....

Yes, yes, I know. I would need to replace the existing 15A line with a 20A line, and even that would be pushing it with 1000 wpc speakers on the same circuit.

 

[Mountain Goat]

Measurements generally. Little advantage shown by "servo"

ps but is marketed that way

pps you got some evidence it does make a big difference outside of claims?

I can't find much. That's why I'm asking you. Because what's really needed is to test with the servo circuit on, defeat the servo, and test again. Which probably isn't possible since it's built into the amp.

ASR did have a short servo sub thread in 2020: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-subwoofers-actually-lower-distortion.11216/

But Rythmiks do test well. Audioholics made some bold claims back in 2011 on the Rythmik FV15HP:

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/rythmik-fv15hp/fv15hp-measurements
Discussion of Measurements
What is noteworthy about this sub, is that the second order distortion components at the three lowest test frequencies, are extremely low. Usually, 2nd order distortion components are those which are the most prevalent, and arguably the least objectionable. Removing them creates the largest measurable reduction in THD (in almost all circumstances) yet second order is the least objectionable of all the harmonics, hence the CEA tolerance of it is in excess of the tolerance for any other components. (Music is, mostly harmonics after all.) Second order distortion at 20, 25 and 32 Hz were so low in fact that with the normal 1/12th octave smoothing, the second harmonic is no where to be found in the spectrum curves. It appears that this is where the servo-feedback excels and Rythmik's claims of low distortion are validated.

Data-bass on the Rythmik FV25HP:

https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5ac87f9b9f7cce0004b8ad4e?_k=rtiz18
Distortion Results
The harmonic distortion results for the FV25HP, captured at the same output levels as those used during the long term output sweeps, indicate that the system is very clean at low to moderate volume and remains commendably clean even near maximum output. During the 105dB measurement the FV25HP produced less than 5% THD from 12-200Hz. The 110dB measurement shows that the FV25HP produced less than 8% THD from 12-200Hz. During the 115dB measurement the FV25HP finally breaks 10% THD but just barely. THD is less than 16% over nearly the entire 10-200Hz bandwidth. Even the 120dB measurement which is maximum output for the FV25HP produces less than 19% THD over the 12-200Hz bandwidth. The harmonic composition of the FV25HP's distortion is mostly H2 or the second harmonic. This is generally held to be the least audible or offensive harmonic. The 3rd harmonic makes a large contribution during the 115 and 120dB sweeps where driver excursion begins to get high. The FV25HP is a very low distortion subwoofer.

 

[Chrispy]

I can't find much. That's why I'm asking you. Because what's really needed is to test with the servo circuit on, defeat the servo, and test again. Which probably isn't possible since it's built into the amp.

ASR did have a short servo sub thread in 2020: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-subwoofers-actually-lower-distortion.11216/

But Rythmiks do test well. Audioholics made some bold claims back in 2011 on the Rythmik FV15HP:


Data-bass on the Rythmik FV25HP:

I personally mark most of it up to marketing, and many responses from Rythmik have that kind of smell....

 

[Pavlya]

Some speaker brands put out a decent sub but I'd tend to stick with sub specialists generally. Where are you?

Thanks for the detailed answer. That what's i was thinking to myself - better get a sub from a specialists.
I don't really like the sound of ported subwoofer, maybe it's just a childhood trauma, because of some basic microlab/yamaha subs, that I've got once was tight on budget, but still wanted some low ends .
I'am at Moscow, Russia right now.
So ill try to check if there are some good offers for an SVS.

 

[Everett T]

Thanks for the detailed answer. That what's i was thinking to myself - better get a sub from a specialists.
I don't really like the sound of ported subwoofer, maybe it's just a childhood trauma, because of some basic microlab/yamaha subs, that I've got once was tight on budget, but still wanted some low ends .
I'am at Moscow, Russia right now.
So ill try to check if there are some good offers for an SVS.

A well designed sub, whether ported, passive radiator, or sealed, will play well as long as long as it's properly integrated.

Depending on which manufacturer you choose, some offer the ability to plug the ports for different applications FWIW.

 

[mullerhun]

Hi all! I registered to the forum because I saw this discussion. Im still at the planning phase for my planned hifi 2.1 system. I got fond of the setup I saw in a darko video

.

Well, except I don't want to spend so much on a sub atm and it's a faily small room where I can enjoy loud listening. So I am looking for alternatives. A was also hooked up with the REL marketing but the pure price/performance number don't sit well with me.

Im leaning now towards SVS, most probably sb-1000 pro. Someone suggested Arendal which looks quite nice https://arendalsound.com/product/1961-subwoofer-1v/ 550w etc. But it looks to me it it doesn't have LFE support, would that be a problem?

I am no expert at all, so go easy on me lol, thx!

 

[Chrispy]

Hi all! I registered to the forum because I saw this discussion. Im still at the planning phase for my planned hifi 2.1 system. I got fond of the setup I saw in a darko video

.

Well, except I don't want to spend so much on a sub atm and it's a faily small room where I can enjoy loud listening. So I am looking for alternatives. A was also hooked up with the REL marketing but the pure price/performance number don't sit well with me.

Im leaning now towards SVS, most probably sb-1000 pro. Someone suggested Arendal which looks quite nice https://arendalsound.com/product/1961-subwoofer-1v/ 550w etc. But it looks to me it it doesn't have LFE support, would that be a problem?

I am no expert at all, so go easy on me lol, thx!

What do you mean by LFE support?

 

[mullerhun]

What do you mean by LFE support?

On the back of the sub there in no LFE input. On SVS and REL there is.

 

[Chrispy]

On the back of the sub there in no LFE input. On SVS and REL there is.

All that generally means is that the sub will bypass its low pass filter, assuming you have bass management in your pre-amp. I'd imagine the dsp of the sub's amp can manage to deal with that, check the manual....

 

[Everett T]

On the back of the sub there in no LFE input. On SVS and REL there is.

There is, it's the main right input for lfe

 

[mullerhun]

There is, it's the main right input for lfe

So why make an LFE input separately? Anyway.... (Biden voice) That's why I sad im new expert

So the Arendal would also work in a 2.1 system well for music.

 

[mullerhun]

All that generally means is that the sub will bypass its low pass filter, assuming you have bass management in your pre-amp. I'd imagine the dsp of the sub's amp can manage to deal with that, check the manual....

I want to go with the above mentioned setup except the kef sub.

So the bluesound node 2021 with kef ls50 meta with a sub.

 

[sfdoddsy]

Hi all! I registered to the forum because I saw this discussion. Im still at the planning phase for my planned hifi 2.1 system. I got fond of the setup I saw in a darko video

.

Well, except I don't want to spend so much on a sub atm and it's a faily small room where I can enjoy loud listening. So I am looking for alternatives. A was also hooked up with the REL marketing but the pure price/performance number don't sit well with me.

Im leaning now towards SVS, most probably sb-1000 pro. Someone suggested Arendal which looks quite nice https://arendalsound.com/product/1961-subwoofer-1v/ 550w etc. But it looks to me it it doesn't have LFE support, would that be a problem?

I am no expert at all, so go easy on me lol, thx!

Deep bass is really simple. You can either have a big driver in a big box which will play deep and loud. Or a smaller driver in a smaller box with EQ which won't play loud, but can go deep with equalisation. Thus the KEF sub in the video will play deep due to EQ, but not loud. An SVS SB1000 will play louder, but not deeper without EQ.

A Rythmik will go deeper than either, but not as loud as the SVS.

In a smaller room the KEF will be just fine.

If you can't afford the KEF I'm not sure why you bring it up.

But a Rythmik would be my pick.

 

[mullerhun]

Deep bass is really simple. You can either have a big driver in a big box which will play deep and loud. Or a smaller driver in a smaller box with EQ which won't play loud, but can go deep with equalisation. Thus the KEF sub in the video will play deep due to EQ, but not loud. An SVS SB1000 will play louder, but not deeper without EQ.

A Rythmik will go deeper than either, but not as loud as the SVS.

In a smaller room the KEF will be just fine.

If you can't afford it I'm not sure why you bring it up.

But a Rythmik would by my pick.

The speaker and bluesound is 2/3 of the whole system. Only for the sub I would like to go with a more affordable ALTERNATIVE.

So that's why I posted the above setup.

 

[Tangband]

I have the opportunity to have a friend who has a very good and expensive hifi-gear in the price range of 50000 dollars.

I have then been able to compair different subwoofers in the higher price ranges , and the most natural sound,playing 2 channel music, comes from Finland.

1. Genelec 7360 *2
2. REL S5 *2
3. Linn akurate sub *2
3. SVS 2000sb *2
4. XTZ cinema 12 *2

Without a very good dsp crossover in the subwoofer it doesnt matter if you have the worlds best drivers or amplifiers.

The ability to play lower than 25 Hz with high spl says nothing at all how it gonna play music in a natural way.
The ability to get good integration is the most important thing.

Edit: only one subwoofer is a waste of money because the soundˋs gonna be worse as soon as you have that sub in your system. Two subwoofers is absolutely nesessary. Its impossible to integrate only one subwoofer in a stereo system, if you want your music to sound better.

 

[Everett T]

So why make an LFE input separately? Anyway.... (Biden voice) That's why I sad im new expert

So the Arendal would also work in a 2.1 system well for music.

A question for the amp manufacturers

 

[Willem]

You can run split XLR from the RME DAC. Figuring out how you will do room EQ, if you are interested in such stuff, will be harder since you will be unable to add a high pass filter to the speakers.

I run my sub from the rca output of the RME ADI-2. I have added a passive high pass filter to the XLR cable from the ADI-2 to the power amplifier.