Is EQ'ing headphones worth it?

[Robbo99999]

All it needs is the proper correction for the lows and you could pull down the region between 3k and 5k with about 1dB or so.

Griesinger uses the equal loudness trick as an intermediate step to determine his HRTF. That's why the FR of the speakers is more or less irrelevant.
When you do this at a louder level the equal loudness contour effect of our hearing is less relevant.

Equal loudness contour correction HAS to be variable and must be calibrated at actual SPL. This is dependent on voltage efficiency of the headphone, gain of the used amplifier and setting.
The old 'contour' switch on the volume control of older amps did just that. Only worked correctly with the certain speakers. This was integrated in the volume control (it had one or 2 'taps').
The RME also has something similar but digital.

When listening at very low levels it could be a pleasant experience as the bass goes up at lower levels.

You cannot EVER do a fixed 'loudness contour' correction for any headphone. period.
That said, my 'bass' correction in my plots are derived from the difference one mixes to in studios and actual headphone listening.
This usually is done at lower levels (for those with some common sense, so excluding some younger folks that play alarmingly loud)
So this differs from the (steep) bass correction of Harman as that is determined by preferences of many people. Most like some increased bass.
My 'correction' is based on equal loudness contours and my listening habits.
My reasoning is explained here.

I know it differs from 'the missing 6dB effect', reasoning for bass boost in room and O-W preference research. I based my theory on equal loudness contours effects which to me makes sense because of my listening habits.
So yes, in the end my bass correction actually is based on equal loudness contours and thus my 'EQ' on this also with similar-ish 'effects' as Golden Ears, O-W and other 'bass' corrections. Correction for lows is essential. My method is just less extreme (in amplitude abd steepness) and to, to me, more logical 'natural' change instead of an unnatural sudden one (GE and O.W.) and far less 'extreme' as Sonarworks.
You don't have to agree though.

The effect comes very close to the tonal balance I get from 'flat' near-field speakers in a large room at 1m distance when switching to headphones that measure 'flat' on MY testrig at levels I can easily sustain for a few hours. That is my goal. Not the ones of other people necessarily.

Thanks, a few useful points for my HD600 there, I'll also take a look at your site there that you linked....previously I've seen your HD600 page and I found the distortion graph notable below 100Hz and your listening experience I value because I think it mirrored mine with the NAD HP50 & AKG K702 for example. Someone told me you do hardware EQ for specific headphones too, so I might take a look at what specific changes you made to the HD600. Thanks for your posts here, I can see you've put time & thought into them.

EDIT: after looking at your HD600 page I think you would be suggesting about a 5dB Low Shelf from 50Hz, assuming I was only bothered with extension to 20Hz rather than 10Hz. (which happens to be the same Low Shelf I use on my K702's).

 

[solderdude]

Hardware EQ for HD600 yes, for K702 is not nearly as 'exact', I can only improve it a bit.
The problem with 'exact' EQ for K702 is difficult because what is the actual reference in this case?
The HP50 can be improved (not fully corrected) by passive EQ.

 

[Robbo99999]

I went against my previous statement I wasn't gonna do any EQ tests with my HD600 for a while, lol! Took stock HD600 and listened to sections of Florence & The Machine's Long & Lost track which has very intimate and clear female vocals, especially in certain segments, and stock HD600 rendered those beautifully with lots of character and fine detail between the syllables....I then kicked in a simple +5dB Low Shelf Boost at 50Hz and even though it's really not a bass heavy track at all I could tell that some of the fine detail & character between the syllables of that female vocal had dissipated and I know longer felt the fine characteristic quality of the HD600, namely for me the beautiful rendering of vocals and instruments in the mid ranges (and I guess parts of the high ranges too due to my female vocal remarks). Hmm, definitely gonna have to enjoy this HD600 at stock for a while, very easy to mess up with EQ for this great headphone. I have a feeling the stock HD600 fits the HRTF of my ears, etc very well.

 

[Dreyfus]

You would have to use a pretty good in-ear that is flush with the ear entrance which rules out a lot of commercial in ears which stick out a bit.
I also experimented with this (of course), this is my attempt (my ear with a WM6A capsule in it.

What you did is measuring the blocked ear canal response! That is indeed problematic and not what I was refering too.

measuring the eardrum itself is nigh on impossible because when you stick something in your ear it will change the ear canal diameter and requires very expensive equipment and access to perfectly flat speakers in various positions around you in anechoic conditions to map out the HRTF in a spherical plane. This takes a lot of time.

I didn't say it was easy. However, probe microphones with soft silicone tubes attached can be as small as one millimeter. The inteferences of such tubes are much lower than those of larger electret capsules.

It also requires quite a lot of experience. It looks simple how he does this on the video but it isn't when you do this without experience/knowledge.

That is true. I experienced that many times trying to match the varying frequencies to the reference tone. You need a few runs until you get a feeling of how to differentiate pitch and level.

What can be seen is a substantial variance of ear shapes and thus HRTF taken from the side only. Taken from the front they will also differ.
This means there can never be a 'match' with an artificial Pinna and ear canal (these also differ in length, diameter and shape) and a 'standard'.

That is one of the reasons why there is so much research around the human pinna and ear canal and how to address all those variances with a good average system. The aim is to be able to design a headphone which behaves sonically controlled right at that drum behind an average human ear. That is kind of a practical approximation in a sense that they expect a headphone to work well on the average in its natural habitat.

I don't want to judge about that at this point. The pros and cons of ear simulators being derived from averaged ear impedance curves are well known in the community.

But to be honest, I don't think a DIY flat plate attempt is a better technique per se. With some controlled damping, a tight seal and a good measurement mic being calibrated to the pressure zone you might get decent results in the lows and mids. The treble however will miss all the interferences with the pinna and ear canal which - depending on the design of the headphone - might not be consistent. Furthermore, it will be hard to tell which resonances will actually be tied to the headphone and which will be introduced by the inteferences of the microphone. Cheap rigs do simply behave too unpredictable to work without averaging. And that's where you loose all the potential treble accuracy (which might not even be there in advance).

That doesn't mean there is no right to exist for a flat plate rig. Still, you have to keep its technical limits in mind.

When comparing 500 Hz noise band to 8kHz via headphones, it sounds heavily to the right and fairly loud. Though, when I adjust 8kHz with a high Q filter, it feels centered and equally loud to 500 Hz, but hovering above my head a bit. I'm guessing that there must be a weird resonance happening between 6.3 kHz and 8kHz or even before 10 kHz? I think this is where EQ isn't able to fix something like that.

Messing with the treble can indeed manipulate the spatial presentation. I noticed that comparing my DT 880 configs which had varying peak compensations derived from different sources. You may have hit a sensitivy area with overlapping peaks and troughs.
You can try to listen to white noise and adjust the variable band EQ accordingly. But be aware that the compensation might get invalid as soon as you reposition the cup on your head. I wouldn't recommend to overcompensate such areas.

I have tried to listen to tone generator after I eq my headphone, I notice that after 6k Hz the sound does have different volume at different frequency. The difference is different for every headphone. Should I try to eq them to same volume using my ears?

Don't use tone generators. For equalization by ear you should use noise bands which excite a wider bandwith than just a single tone.

 

[solderdude]

What you did is measuring the blocked ear canal response! That is indeed problematic and not what I was refering too.

Indeed, what it achieves is that it 'charts' the Concha gain etc. It is quite headphone position sensitive for obvious reasons.
When you use a thin tube mic you will add the earcanal resonance to it.
In both cases it is very hard to 'reconstruct' what the drive is emitting as too many variables have changed the sound.

Hmm, definitely gonna have to enjoy this HD600 at stock for a while, very easy to mess up with EQ for this great headphone. I have a feeling the stock HD600 fits the HRTF of my ears, etc very well.

The brain takes this all into consideration as it knows how the ear 'measures' the incoming sounds.
It calibrates continuously itself. This is why one can get used to (accept) colorations of headphones because the brain has gotten used to its 'presentation'. Some headphones the brain cannot 'compensate' for and folks don't like those and end up looking for a 'better' one.
This is the same after you EQ it while having gotten used to it without EQ and accepted this.
One needs to give EQ some time.

Don't use tone generators. For equalization by ear you should use noise bands which excite a wider bandwith than just a single tone.

this!

But to be honest, I don't think a DIY flat plate attempt is a better technique per se.

I don't think so either. It is cheap (or can be) and gives fairly good results.
Slapping a UMIK1 in a piece of rubber and expect it to work properly is not the way to go about this. Yet most DIY rigs are made this way.

 

[Kouioui]

The brain takes this all into consideration as it knows how the ear 'measures' the incoming sounds. It calibrates continuously itself. This is why one can get used to (accept) colorations of headphones because the brain has gotten used to its 'presentation'. Some headphones the brain cannot 'compensate' for and folks don't like those and end up looking for a 'better' one. This is the same after you EQ it while having gotten used to it without EQ and accepted this. One needs to give EQ some time.

I strongly agree with this given my long 53 year history with audio. After many decades of brain 'burn-in' listening to Sony V6/7506s in studios and Grados at home, I decided 15 years ago it was time to return to the Sennheiser sound signature of my youth (my first headphones were HD414s) with HD580s and a quality headphone amp. It took months of recalibration before I could get the previous peaked response out of my head and start appreciating a flatter sound, even though I felt they needed help in the low-end to match what I heard in most rooms with quality speakers. EQ wasn't something audiophiles wanted or needed, or so I thought.

After a few years I gave up on headphone listening, sold the 580s and amp, and switched to a 7.1 home theater setup for the sense of envelopment and tonality I was missing. I've had a project studio and nearfield monitors since the late 80s but it was used for recording and mixing, not for listening enjoyment. It was only after I used room EQ with my monitors that I finally had a reference that came close to what I hear on stages as a musician.

I read about the Harman research that resulted in their preferred response curves for speakers and headphones. Decided last year to give Sennheiser a go again but with something that had a little more low-end than the 580s. Bought 58X, 6XX, and borrowed my son's 599s..spent a month deciding which I preferred without EQ and settled on the 6XX. After adding oratory1990's EQ settings and tweaking a bit, I finally had headphones I can mix with that my ears/brain sense match my speakers in tonality.

 

[Robbo99999]

The brain takes this all into consideration as it knows how the ear 'measures' the incoming sounds.
It calibrates continuously itself. This is why one can get used to (accept) colorations of headphones because the brain has gotten used to its 'presentation'. Some headphones the brain cannot 'compensate' for and folks don't like those and end up looking for a 'better' one.
This is the same after you EQ it while having gotten used to it without EQ and accepted this.
One needs to give EQ some time.

Yeah, I agree with that concept, but in my situation I know the sound I like, ie Harman Curve EQ'd speakers and Harman EQ'd headphones (my NAD HP50), so I know the sound I like, and the HD600 is not far off that at all except needing a tad more bass (it's one of the closest matching headphones to the Harman Curve I found out recently, I knew it matched well but I didn't realise it was in like the Top 5).....however my quick bass EQ experiments seem to be reducing detail where the headphone really shines (vocals), same goes for applying a whole Oratory1990 EQ across the whole frequency range. I think any sucessful EQ on this headphone for me may be experimenting with a stock headphone and varying Low Shelf Boosts from say 1-4dB, because 5dB is definitely removing detail. I'm wondering if it's the relatively high measured distortion of this headphone below 100Hz that is not playing nice with additional bass boosts, in terms of reducing detail in the rest of the frequency range. Another experiment might be EQ'ing down the peak at 3100Hz by a couple of dB...but I'm not finding this headphone is responding well to the whole Oratory1990 EQ which I'm surprised about because it worked wonder for the NAD HP50. HD600 excellent at stock so far though.

 

[Robbo99999]

Pfffft, I'm very fickle, I keep changing my conclusions & my approach! I wacked on Oratory's EQ profile onto these HD600 and decided to listen to them in a relaxed but concentrated way on some of my favourite tracks I know really well. It's for sure a better balance of overall tonality with that Harman Curve EQ, but I was concerned before I was losing detail and maybe some imaging.....but after listening relaxed & carefully enjoying some of my favourite tracks it was kinda like a switch being flipped in my brain where I could start hearing the details and placing the instruments in space and sound.....perhaps I had to learn a new HRTF. My K702's are a bit of bodge rough EQ job by me making various assumptions so it's possible I created a different HRTF using those......I do feel like my mind has kind of morphed into the shape of the Oratory HD600 Harman EQ. For sure I knew tonality was better right from the start, and now that my mind is used to it I don't think I'm missing any detail & imaging.....weird, but that's the best way I can describe it. They are great, very much enjoying the HD600 with the Oratory1990 Harman Curve EQ now. I think I'll rest now! (from flitting!)

 

[Iglo]

After getting my HD660s I stumbled on this topic. I must say that the Oratory1990 Harman Curve EQ (using Equalizer APO and Peace interface) really makes quite a positive difference in how they sound. Slightly nicer bass and better controlled treble (to my ears). So for me, EQ'ing headphones is definitely worth it.

I am however curious if there is also a way to apply these EQ settings on iOS? I use mostly Spotify on iOS, which has an build in EQ although hard to control which is not great.

 

[pallatin]

Would my Audeze LCD-1 or Hifiman Sundara benefit from a little EQualization? The Totalmix FX software from my RME Babyface Pro FS audio interface only has a 3-band parametric EQ, so I could either use this, or look for another EQ tool, maybe a system wide EQ for MacOS. Thoughts?

 

[xykreinov]

Would my Audeze LCD-1 or Hifiman Sundara benefit from a little EQualization? The Totalmix FX software from my RME Babyface Pro FS audio interface only has a 3-band parametric EQ, so I could either use this, or look for another EQ tool, maybe a system wide EQ for MacOS. Thoughts?

All headphones benefit significantly from EQ. Some more or less than others. But, there's always room for improvement, and that room is typically large due to the complication of what a good target headphone frequency response universally is. Headphones are not like a loudspeaker. The latter, ideally, just needs to be flat in an anechoic chamber. Headphones cannot just be tuned flat due to how to sound is manipulated by ear organs like the pinna when the drivers are right outside of your ears.
Limiting yourself to the confines of physical engineering for any given target is a mistake, in my view.

Since you're using OSX, check this out: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq#osx

 

[BillG]

Would my Audeze LCD-1 or Hifiman Sundara benefit from a little EQualization?

All headphones, earphones, and IEMs benefit from equalization as the physical structure of our ears are all slightly different, thus affecting frequency response.

I generally use the Harman target curve as a basis for my own equalizations, and then adjust to taste from there.

For some reason, my ear canals always cause a resonance between 2 to 4 KHz that can lead to some pronounced sibilance. So I always EQ that region down 1.5 to 3dB for starters, and since I like sub-bass rumble, I usually bump up 31Hz and below by 1.5dB as well.

All the best...

 

[Haint]

Does anyone make a portable amp/dac all-in-one with EQ sophisticated enough to apply the various community Harman curve corrections people use with Equalizer APO and the like?

 

[Jimbob54]

Does anyone make a portable amp/dac all-in-one with EQ sophisticated enough to apply the various community Harman curve corrections people use with Equalizer APO and the like?

Not that I am aware of- but phone plus any DAC/amp you definitely can- decent EQ (can upgrade to full parametric ) on USB Audio Player Pro and other player apps

 

[Haint]

Not that I am aware of- but phone plus any DAC/amp you definitely can- decent EQ (can upgrade to full parametric ) on USB Audio Player Pro and other player apps

Thx Jim. I'm interested in correcting some headphones for use with VR and PS5's binaural 3D audio, not media/music off a phone. Is there any way to rig up a chain of portable devices to accomplish this if no singular device exists?

 

[Bob-23]

Does anyone make a portable amp/dac all-in-one with EQ sophisticated enough to apply the various community Harman curve corrections people use with Equalizer APO and the like?

https://www.thomann.de/intl/parametric_equalizers.html

 

[Robbo99999]

Thx Jim. I'm interested in correcting some headphones for use with VR and PS5's binaural 3D audio, not media/music off a phone. Is there any way to rig up a chain of portable devices to accomplish this if no singular device exists?

Can you use a miniDSP 2x4? I use this inbetween my active speakers and my TV, so it's RCA in -> configurable EQ signal processing -> RCA out.
https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4
It's good enough quality for me for TV & movie, I use it for RoomEQ, but no reason why you can't use it for headphones if you can fit it into your signal chain. Once you've programmed it via PC with the parametric filters then it functions as a standalone item in your audio chain (obviously it uses a power supply).
With the software plug-in I chose for it, it has 12 parametric filters available for EQ (2 "banks" of 6) - you can choose any of the available plugins for it, but I chose the one with the most available filters.

EDIT: note the max voltage it can output is 0.9V, and it's max input is either 0.9V or 2V depending on which version you buy (there's two, both same price). You'd have to work out if a max output of 0.9V is gonna be loud enough for you given your amplification after that and which headphones you're driving.

 

[datsky]

Hey , I've come across your old reply back from 2021, I see that you really enjoy 560S, I recently bought those headphones and this is my first ever audiophile headphone I have owned, I had HyperX Cloud 2's before and the issue i'm having here is that music does not sound as soulful like it was on my previous headset, Just to put it out simply: The songs that made me sing do not make me sing anymore, I just can't enjoy the experience I'm having, That's why I decided to send a private message and ask a few other questions or possibly ask for help if you are willing to.

I have tried your EQ settings and the one from Oratory, and keithphantom ( I also found his EQ on this website ) So far with some songs I prefer the one you have provided , I am thankful that you have put your time and energy into it. (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd560s-owners-thread.27208/)
I am really terrified asking you for help and I am terribly sorry if I have disturbed you in any way regards, Would there be a chance if you could help me out setting EQ to the point where I can feel a little better soundstage, I really listen to every genre of the music, Starting from Electronic, Dub , Deephouse , Chillhouse, Lo-Fi, Rock, Alt-rock , Hip-Hop, Rap etc.
If you have a Discord and you are able to help me out, I would really appreciate this , I couldn't find your config either ( maybe it got automatically deleted by website due 2 years passed ) I'm really new to this stuff and excuse me for posting this reply here( I couldn't send private message as this account is new)

Best wishes.

 

[Robbo99999]

Hey , I've come across your old reply back from 2021, I see that you really enjoy 560S, I recently bought those headphones and this is my first ever audiophile headphone I have owned, I had HyperX Cloud 2's before and the issue i'm having here is that music does not sound as soulful like it was on my previous headset, Just to put it out simply: The songs that made me sing do not make me sing anymore, I just can't enjoy the experience I'm having, That's why I decided to send a private message and ask a few other questions or possibly ask for help if you are willing to.

I have tried your EQ settings and the one from Oratory, and keithphantom ( I also found his EQ on this website ) So far with some songs I prefer the one you have provided , I am thankful that you have put your time and energy into it. (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd560s-owners-thread.27208/)
I am really terrified asking you for help and I am terribly sorry if I have disturbed you in any way regards, Would there be a chance if you could help me out setting EQ to the point where I can feel a little better soundstage, I really listen to every genre of the music, Starting from Electronic, Dub , Deephouse , Chillhouse, Lo-Fi, Rock, Alt-rock , Hip-Hop, Rap etc.
If you have a Discord and you are able to help me out, I would really appreciate this , I couldn't find your config either ( maybe it got automatically deleted by website due 2 years passed ) I'm really new to this stuff and excuse me for posting this reply here( I couldn't send private message as this account is new)

Best wishes.

Hello. I couldn't find any measurement info by Oratory or Crinacle on your previous headphone (the HyperX Cloud 2), so I don't know what frequency response that one has, but I think the first thing to try to do is to make sure you're trying an EQ to Harman Curve, as a starting point at least, for your newly bought HD560s headphones. First, there are two versions of the HD560s, the Old Version & New Version. The New Version is the one that has the shorter cable that ends in the small 3.5mm male plug, whereas the Old Version has a longer cable that ends in a larger 6.5mm male plug. Which version do you have? When did you buy it, did you buy it new or used? That's important to know because then we can alter the EQ accordingly to give you your best starting point.
(This is sort of related to this thread, inasmuch as it's on the topic of headphone EQ, so I'm ok helping you out for a while until you have enough posts to send private messages).

 

[datsky]

Hello. I couldn't find any measurement info by Oratory or Crinacle on your previous headphone (the HyperX Cloud 2), so I don't know what frequency response that one has, but I think the first thing to try to do is to make sure you're trying an EQ to Harman Curve, as a starting point at least, for your newly bought HD560s headphones. First, there are two versions of the HD560s, the Old Version & New Version. The New Version is the one that has the shorter cable that ends in the small 3.5mm male plug, whereas the Old Version has a longer cable that ends in a larger 6.5mm male plug. Which version do you have? When did you buy it, did you buy it new or used? That's important to know because then we can alter the EQ accordingly to give you your best starting point.
(This is sort of related to this thread, inasmuch as it's on the topic of headphone EQ, so I'm ok helping you out for a while until you have enough posts to send private messages).

Thanks for responding, I have never EQ'd my Cloud 2's, Just used them for gaming so I'm not entirely sure anyone would EQ it to Harman Curve.
I currently added 3 EQ options that I found from Oratory, you and one more user.
Headphones are new but they're older version I think, since they did end in a larger 6.5mm male plug that I unscrewed to plug in into my FiiO K3.
Are there major differences in old & new? I've chosen those headphones over Sennheiser 6XX.

And thanks alot for understanding, Cloud 2 has Frequency Response of : 15-20,000Hz

Sensitivity	98dB/mW
Power Capacity	3mW
Impedance	60 ohms