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Is anyone aware of Apple Music using vinyl as a source?

Mean & Green

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I’ve just listened to an EP on Apple Music and to me it sounds like a vinyl rip. I’m really surprised by this.

I could hear motor noise and occasional distorted sibilance as well as excessive de-essing.

The EP was Debbie Harry’s French Kissin In The USA if anyone would care to give it a try. The Dance Mix sounds overly de-essed and the third mix on the EP sounded like distorted sibilance. Motor hum can be heard on any of the slightly quieter sections or more noticeably during the fade outs at the end of the tracks.

So I’m assuming there are no digital sources for this particular release, but they could have done a better job of this.
 

DVDdoug

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I'm surprised too!

...I do have some very old recordings on CD that were originally made before there were tape recorders were invented, and it's obvious.
 
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Mean & Green

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OMG that is horrible ..... lol ..... should have lived in the 70's and 80's when real DJ's ruled the roost. Best time ever and long forgotten it seems.
I was born in the 70s.
 
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DSJR

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No idea, but the un-baked master tape could have been ruined by a severe shedding issue, especially if wound back on a machine which could have shredded it as happened with an Elton John master I gather when his recordings were done properly in the 90's or noughties (I forget).

If vinyl was the original source for this particular ep, no reason why a Technics direct drive (so no motor drone) source with a durable Ortofon Nightclub E pickup or something couldn't have been used? I have a Paul Oakenfold CD set mastered from vinyl originals (deliberately) and you really wouldn't know (knowing makes you think there's a slight loss of 'air' but many original mixes can sound like that anyway!).
 

Vincent Kars

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You don't need vinyl to sound like vinyl: https://www.izotope.com/en/products/vinyl.html

“Vinyl has become the ultimate lo-fi tool for adding character to tracks. I’ve used it on projects for The Strokes, The Shins, My Morning Jacket, and Morrissey. I’ve used it on acoustic guitar, strings, and drums. My favorite is the year control — I loved dialing an orchestral string sound back to the 1930s.“
 

sarumbear

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I’ve just listened to an EP on Apple Music and to me it sounds like a vinyl rip. I’m really surprised by this.

I could hear motor noise and occasional distorted sibilance as well as excessive de-essing.

The EP was Debbie Harry’s French Kissin In The USA if anyone would care to give it a try. The Dance Mix sounds overly de-essed and the third mix on the EP sounded like distorted sibilance. Motor hum can be heard on any of the slightly quieter sections or more noticeably during the fade outs at the end of the tracks.

So I’m assuming there are no digital sources for this particular release, but they could have done a better job of this.
Apple Music, or any other service has no say on the track quality. They simply make available the file given to them by the label. In this case Geffen Records in the US and Chrysalis Records in the UK were the culprit. The track is part of the album Rockbird, the second solo studio album by Debbie Harry.

Have you listened to the track on other services?
 
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Mean & Green

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Apple Music, or any other service has no say on the track quality. They simply make available the file given to them by the label. In this case Geffen Records in the US and Chrysalis Records in the UK were the culprit. The track is part of the album Rockbird, the second solo studio album by Debbie Harry.
I own the original album Rockbird on vinyl.

I just didn’t expect Apple Music to have such a poor quality rip of the remixes available as a streamable and downloadable product.

Personally I think motor hum on a digital medium is poor show. If the record company are supplying files in such a manner they could do a much better job of it.
 

jcarys

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New Order put out some deluxe editions of their albums years ago on CD, but the 12" mixes were sourced from vinyl because the original digital tracks couldn't be located. They were fairly excoriated in the reviews for how bad this sounded. The next set of "deluxe" versions improved the sound somewhat.

But the main point is that Apple puts up whatever the record company supplies them with (or sometimes files come directly from the artist).
 

JCM800

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Apple doesn’t do anything but serve what they’re given. That said I was pleasantly surprised when I found a couple Witchfinder General EPs to clearly be needle drops.
 

Ron Texas

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I can't imagine an official release being made from vinyl. Needle drops as they are called are for pirates.
 

Ron Texas

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This is why I’m surprised. This EP sounds like what you would expect from a pirate copy.
There's a lot of ways to screw things up. Remember when record companies got caught up-sampling CD's and passing them off as high res.
 

restorer-john

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Motor hum can be heard on any of the slightly quieter sections or more noticeably during the fade outs at the end of the tracks.

How do you know it's so-called 'motor hum' from a turntable? Can you be more specific. The frequency particularly.

Noise from turntable motors is all over the shop in terms of frequency, severity and cause.

A BD or DD turntable may be susceptible to noise pickup from the actual transformer itself or the main motor, and that noise/hum may increase or decrease as the cartridge/arm moves closer/further from the noise source as it traverses the record. It can be PSU related with multiples of the mains frequency or it can be unrelated and be picking up the drive circuitry itself.

And, there are plenty of recordings where the noise is from the original open reel decks themselves and/or hum/noise in the studio consoles and wiring. I have plenty of CDs where the flaws in the production create 50/60 or 100/120Hz residuals.
 
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Mean & Green

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How do you know it's so-called 'motor hum' from a turntable? Can you be more specific. The frequency particularly.

Noise from turntable motors is all over the shop in terms of frequency, severity and cause.

A BD or DD turntable may be susceptible to noise pickup from the actual transformer itself or the main motor, and that noise/hum may increase or decrease as the cartridge/arm moves closer/further from the noise source as it traverses the record. It can be PSU related with multiples of the mains frequency or it can be unrelated and be picking up the drive circuitry itself.

And, there are plenty of recordings where the noise is from the original open reel decks themselves and/or hum/noise in the studio consoles and wiring. I have plenty of CDs where the flaws in the production create 50/60 or 100/120Hz residuals.
I know it’s motor hum because I know what motor hum sounds like. I’ve owned a turntable that used to suffer from it.

I have no means of measuring what frequency it is, but it’s audible. It’s not a tape transfer because they have clearly de-essed some off the terrible sibilance mistracking on some of the tracks, but completely missed that process altogether with the third track and mistracking distored sibilance can be heard which IME is only encountered with poor vinyl playback.

Try taking a listen to it if you get a chance and have access to it.
 

restorer-john

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Try taking a listen to it if you get a chance and have access to it.

Can you provide a link to the actual track with the issue, or even a small sample available for download?

I have Rockbird on vinyl, but haven't listened to it for years. Also a bunch of her output on CD.
 
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