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Is all speaker fill created equal?

manny11701

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Currently at the build stage of making my enclosure, but I’m struggling to determine what a good sound dampening material is for the box.

Some people say the cheap poly fill that’s in your pillows is enough, but i also just watched a video by audio judgement on how sound dampening material affects a speakers frequency. He also made a comment that “denser fills will be better for absorbing lower frequencies”.

This makes me wonder what is a good brand or good material to use? Have studies been done between plain Jane poly fil vs a more hifi specific brand? What’s recommended?
 

DVDdoug

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I'm sure they aren't all the same... But, I've just used fiberglass from the home improvement store.

He also made a comment that “denser fills will be better for absorbing lower frequencies”.
As far as I know, low frequencies aren't absorbed much at all.
 

AlfaNovember

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Turns out, that question actually is rocket science: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20140008689/downloads/20140008689.pdf

When the design brief calls for acoustic damping to be lightweight, chemically inert and fire resistant, melamine foam works well.

Looking earthwards, I've found a $30 100-pack of melamine foam "magic erasers" is more than enough for a pair of bookshelf sized cabinets, and avoids the unpleasantness of working with fiberglass.
 

sam_adams

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It's not about what frequencies are absorbed, but more about the gas flow resistivity (GFR) of the fill medium. When you put fill in the box, the driver has to 'work' harder to push the air through the fill medium on the inward half of the driver's cycle and work harder to pull the air out of the medium on the outward half of the cycle. This has the same effect as having a larger box with more air to compress.

Not all fill media have the same GFR. GFR depends on several factors including one called tortuosity. This factor is basically the length of the path that the gas molecules have to travel through the fill medium. The higher the tortuosity, the lower the GFR, and the harder the driver has to work to get the air through the fill.

High density polyester batting—which is very different than 'pillow stuffing'—will yield very different results. In a ported box where the 'pillow stuffing' may lower the resonant frequency by maybe 1.5 Hz - 2 Hz, the higher density poly batting may lower that by 3 Hz - 4 Hz depending on the amount used.

Open-cell Polyether foam will have different characteristics than that of all polyester fills and can give you a very wide choice of fill media from which to choose. These types of foams can be very lightweight with a very low tortuosity that will have minimum effect on your box tuning. Other types of polyether foam can be very dense with a very small open-cell structure and can provide a much higher tortuosity and GFR per unit volume. These types will allow you to use less fill and still achieve the same effect.

Open-cell melamine foam is another type of foam that can be used as it has the smallest cell size, greatest tortuosity, and highest GFR of all open-cell foams. It's lightweight and easy to work requiring only a cheap kitchen knife to cut. While you can obtain small quantities from the local supermarket—Mr. Kleen Magic Eraser—larger quantities can be very expensive.

Whatever fill media you choose, the important thing to keep in mind is to not overfill the box. Doing so will lower the efficiency of the system and can severely reduce the output. In a ported system you know when you have used enough when the resonant frequency doesn't go any lower when you add more fill. A sealed system is a bit trickier as you have to test a bit more carefully to see where the output starts to drop ever so slightly as you add more fill.

Some of the above materials can be purchased online. However, if you have an upholstery shop nearby, they might carry—or can order—various types of polyester fill and batting that you can try out. Polyether foam can be ordered online, but the pricing is usually ridiculous and you can't really tell what you're getting until it arrives. Melamine—as mentioned earlier—is quite a bit more expensive if you need a large quantity, but its quality is generally very consistent from various vendors.
 

JSmith

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cheap poly fill
Generally that is fine, but often one needs to use more of it compared to other fill types.

A decent video (on my quick viewing) on the subject, showing some testing/measurements of 3 different types;


Wool fill is even an option and very fire resistant too;


JSmith
 

ppataki

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Polyether foam can be ordered online, but the pricing is usually ridiculous and you can't really tell what you're getting until it arrives.
What I do to mitigate that is I order my polyester wad from a company that supplies to dressmakers :) This way the price is peanuts and they also have different varieties in terms of grams/m2. I prefer the 400gr/m2 type - it works like a charm for me when it comes to speaker filling
 
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manny11701

manny11701

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What I do to mitigate that is I order my polyester wad from a company that supplies to dressmakers :) This way the price is peanuts and they also have different varieties in terms of grams/m2. I prefer the 400gr/m2 type - it works like a charm for me when it comes to speaker filling
Are you willing to share your source? That sounds like a great alternative
 

ppataki

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Are you willing to share your source? That sounds like a great alternative
Yes of course but I am not sure how much it will help since it is a Hungarian source (I am based in Hungary)
 

badspeakerdesigner

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I like to line my boxes with cotton insulation from ATC acoustics. I've wanted to try melamine foam but seems nearly impossible to source for me. I guess one could buy bulk erasers and glue them together somehow.
 
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manny11701

manny11701

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I like to line my boxes with cotton insulation from ATC acoustics. I've wanted to try melamine foam but seems nearly impossible to source for me. I guess one could buy bulk erasers and glue them together somehow.
I was literally debating doing that
 

sam_adams

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It really is unnecessary to glue foam to the inside of the box. If you cut the foam so that it's just a bit oversized for the side of the box it will be applied to, it will hold in place by itself. You just don't want to over-compress it when fitting it in. Another thing to consider is, that similar to wadding polyester fill and placing it in the box, foam can be loosely placed in the box and it will have the same effect.
 

fpitas

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Vance Dickason did some testing too, which is in his Loudspeaker Design Cookbook.
 

fpitas

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I found gluing foam over its entire surface improved the knock test, FWIW.
 
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manny11701

manny11701

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You don't mention if this is a vented-box, sealed-box, or maybe a subwoofer. Each will have a preferred stuffing scheme and material.
And, in the case of a subwoofer, it's preferable to not use any stuffing.
Apologies, it’s a TM tower that’s vented at the bottom with a Transmission line
 

fpitas

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I like to line my boxes with cotton insulation from ATC acoustics. I've wanted to try melamine foam but seems nearly impossible to source for me. I guess one could buy bulk erasers and glue them together somehow.
I stuffed my subs with cut up cotton waste panels from ATS Acoustics. Worked for me.

Maybe as good as fiberglass, maybe not. But nice to work with.
 
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manny11701

manny11701

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As much as I’d love to use these solutions, I think my best route will be to use standard fiberglass home insulation. All these solutions are very good, but also costly, so I think gloves and a mask are gonna be my best bet.

Atleast in regards to this project, would love to try the other solutions, but thank you all for your suggestions and I’d love to continue to learn more so if you have more resources or seek to discuss or ask more on the subject, let’s definitely keep this thread open and going
 

badspeakerdesigner

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It really is unnecessary to glue foam to the inside of the box. If you cut the foam so that it's just a bit oversized for the side of the box it will be applied to, it will hold in place by itself. You just don't want to over-compress it when fitting it in. Another thing to consider is, that similar to wadding polyester fill and placing it in the box, foam can be loosely placed in the box and it will have the same effect.

Doesn't really work with the melamine erasers I was referring to.
 
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