Well we can all come up with our own theories, but for me, rather than the horn route ("Wah wah waaah"), I would rather address the shortcomings of standard hi fi systems a different way. Doppler distortion is real, but maybe power compression isn't. Either way, sharing the load with more 'ways' seems like the way to go, for me. Active, DSP-based crossovers make this work properly. Large, sealed, bass drivers are also part of it. The result, for me, sounds as good as 'live' - if the recording is good.
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Introductions anyone?
- Thread starter Phelonious Ponk
- Start date
Hi
There is in us, audiophiles a shared psychological make-up. We, for the most extend that approach to other activities, even our lives... this out of the way
...
We tend to thin in term of exclusive approaches. They're not all of these combined make for a greater reproduction:
Better drivers with more linear excursion. Good for all concerned.
Control of Directivity via mechanical means i-e Waveguides, horns? Check Good .. (CG?)
Control of Directivity via Electronics means DSP? CG!
More powerful and more linear amplification? CG
Better CRossover with Digital/DSP/ Electronics? CG!
There is a convergence or at least there should be. There can't be just one magic-bullet approach. It seems however to me that Horn/Waveguide High Efficiency designs tend to work on many fronts. TO me there isn't better alternatives to bass reproduction than Multiple Subs in Geddes or Welti coupled with DSP and EQ. A system who has those is moving IMHO in the right direction. Linearity in the reproduction of Dynamics is to me essential to getting closer to Live Music and Live instruments. I suppose by now that you know full range is to me as essential. Weak bass = Inaccurate Music reproduction
There is in us, audiophiles a shared psychological make-up. We, for the most extend that approach to other activities, even our lives... this out of the way
...We tend to thin in term of exclusive approaches. They're not all of these combined make for a greater reproduction:
Better drivers with more linear excursion. Good for all concerned.
Control of Directivity via mechanical means i-e Waveguides, horns? Check Good .. (CG?
)Control of Directivity via Electronics means DSP? CG!
More powerful and more linear amplification? CG
Better CRossover with Digital/DSP/ Electronics? CG!
There is a convergence or at least there should be. There can't be just one magic-bullet approach. It seems however to me that Horn/Waveguide High Efficiency designs tend to work on many fronts. TO me there isn't better alternatives to bass reproduction than Multiple Subs in Geddes or Welti coupled with DSP and EQ. A system who has those is moving IMHO in the right direction. Linearity in the reproduction of Dynamics is to me essential to getting closer to Live Music and Live instruments. I suppose by now that you know full range is to me as essential. Weak bass = Inaccurate Music reproduction
Hi
There is in us, audiophiles a shared psychological make-up. We, for the most extend that approach to other activities, even our lives... this out of the way
We tend to thin in term of exclusive approaches. They're not all of these combined make for a greater reproduction:
Better drivers with more linear excursion. Good for all concerned.
Control of Directivity via mechanical means i-e Waveguides, horns? Check Good .. (CG?
Control of Directivity via Electronics means DSP? CG!
More powerful and more linear amplification? CG
Better CRossover with Digital/DSP/ Electronics? CG!
There is a convergence or at least there should be. There can't be just one magic-bullet approach. It seems however to me that Horn/Waveguide High Efficiency designs tend to work on many fronts. TO me there isn't better alternatives to bass reproduction than Multiple Subs in Geddes or Welti coupled with DSP and EQ. A system who has those is moving IMHO in the right direction. Linearity in the reproduction of Dynamics is to me essential to getting closer to Live Music and Live instruments. I suppose by now that you know full range is to me as essential. Weak bass = Inaccurate Music reproduction
My one point of contention with the bolded statement. This may be true for well engineered solutions like JBL, SEOS or Geddes. But it does not hold true for the vast majority of horn speakers including the lifestyle/bragging rights speakers like Avant-Garde, Cessaro and their kind.
Just look at the polars for these various Tractrix and JMLC round horns that the latter brands use. It will be difficult more than likely impossible to achieve directivity matching at the crossover points using passive crossovers (which these lifestyle brands use) or even with active crossovers since the directivity is a function of the horn shape.
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hvbias
Could well be true, perhaps I should rephrase and say from the better horn speakers.. . My experience with horn is limited. I fond myself very much seduced by the JBL (K2?) I have heard. I did like the Avant Guarde Trio I heard, not enough to acquire these but quite sufficient to pique my interest. The Altec Lansing VTT I heard were a revelation. There were something about the clarity of their sounds that was most beguiling. Imaging wasn't what tend to prefer
I like the theoretical basis of Geddes and by his approach on reproduction. I would make all efforts to listen to some of his speakers and will definitely hear the JBL 4367, M2 and if time permits the JBL Array 1400 of which I have heard great things.
Could well be true, perhaps I should rephrase and say from the better horn speakers..
. My experience with horn is limited. I fond myself very much seduced by the JBL (K2?) I have heard. I did like the Avant Guarde Trio I heard, not enough to acquire these but quite sufficient to pique my interest. The Altec Lansing VTT I heard were a revelation. There were something about the clarity of their sounds that was most beguiling. Imaging wasn't what tend to preferI like the theoretical basis of Geddes and by his approach on reproduction. I would make all efforts to listen to some of his speakers and will definitely hear the JBL 4367, M2 and if time permits the JBL Array 1400 of which I have heard great things.
Chuck Gerlach
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In the multiple venues in which I have heard Avant Guarde speakers (shows and 2 homes), I was alway completely blown away by female vocals. I have yet to hear any other speaker that can do that. Unfortunately, that is where the fascination ended. Should I have any reason to change my speakers (I don't), I would like to hear some of the newer JBL's (sorry Paul McGowan) in a well done room.
The true key to never being dissatisfied with your current audio/video system is to quit reading magazines, forums and visiting stores and shows.
The true key to never being dissatisfied with your current audio/video system is to quit reading magazines, forums and visiting stores and shows.
Hi, my name is Nick. I never registered at WBF but happened upon the 'measurements-based' forum and appreciated Amir's approach (as well as most of you other guys, too).
I am a musician and enjoy recording/engineering/producing as a hobby. I became painfully aware of expectation bias while working on my own recordings. I can't count how many times I have adjusted EQ/reverb/etc. and got it to sound just the way I wanted it, only to find the effect was bypassed. But the sound I heard really changed! Those experiences made me realize just how unreliable our subjective impressions can be.
I wouldn't say I'm an audiophile but I appreciate good sound; whether at home, in the car, or with my in-ear monitors when I'm on the go. I like to start with the best digital source (mastering) of the music. Sometimes I tweak a master to my liking using EQ and other tools. I like this forum because of the rational approach that's taken. Subjective discussions aren't prevented, but they are useless once objective data are brought to the table. When someone claims to have heard something that accepted science deems unlikely, my feeling is "ABX results or it didn't happen!". I'm not closed-minded, but I feel that it's pointless to go around in circles discussing SQ differences that cannot be verified with blind tests. I'd prefer to spend time and money on things that actually matter.
I am a musician and enjoy recording/engineering/producing as a hobby. I became painfully aware of expectation bias while working on my own recordings. I can't count how many times I have adjusted EQ/reverb/etc. and got it to sound just the way I wanted it, only to find the effect was bypassed. But the sound I heard really changed! Those experiences made me realize just how unreliable our subjective impressions can be.
I wouldn't say I'm an audiophile but I appreciate good sound; whether at home, in the car, or with my in-ear monitors when I'm on the go. I like to start with the best digital source (mastering) of the music. Sometimes I tweak a master to my liking using EQ and other tools. I like this forum because of the rational approach that's taken. Subjective discussions aren't prevented, but they are useless once objective data are brought to the table. When someone claims to have heard something that accepted science deems unlikely, my feeling is "ABX results or it didn't happen!". I'm not closed-minded, but I feel that it's pointless to go around in circles discussing SQ differences that cannot be verified with blind tests. I'd prefer to spend time and money on things that actually matter.
Welcome aboard Ceedee. Now that is one creative alias! That is a great introduction and encapsulates who we are so excellently. Would love to learn from you on the recording/engineering/mastering side of things.
Chuck Gerlach
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I can only respond to your post with an "Amen, Amen and Amen". And to that part I bolded, that should apply to all things in life, not just audio. But in my case, "if only". Followed by welcome.
Totally agree though 'what matters'is totally subjective
But I will forgive him that indiscretion
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Yes, in the sense of our individual preferences, absolutely. We all have different things that matter to us.
Although...plenty of audiophiles think that their kilobuck/foot USB cables "matter," too.
Chuck Gerlach
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It is more like kilobuck/nano-inch !!Yes, in the sense of our individual preferences, absolutely. We all have different things that matter to us.
Although...plenty of audiophiles think that their kilobuck/foot USB cables "matter," too.
Alfe welcome, to ASR ,Optoelectronics ; sounds interesting ?
Keith.
Keith.
Lol, a little sarcasm!
The only D in audio science review is in the audio!
Cheeky first post...
I love cheeky buggersThen happy to bring some contribution with my limited knowledge and thank you for the warm welcome
Welcome
Spry old gentleman for 116, we wish you well.Then happy to bring some contribution with my limited knowledge and thank you for the warm welcome
Keith_W
Major Contributor
Found my way here thanks to NorthStar. I went back to WBF to ask a question, only to find a whole bunch of members banned - in particular, the member I wanted to chat to. Good to see you are all kicking around here.
Warm welcome Keith. We are kicking around here alright. Sometimes that is all we are doing: kicking.
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