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Importance of Tonality (?)

Katji

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Well, we do have access to what the composer wants because, as with many he publishes his score. And I would also argue that we can hear what the performer intends even though this may not be reflected in the recording because that is reflected in dynamics and tonal control and other things which we can already hear (even in poorly recorded instances).

This is an open-question by the way. I don't know the answer.
Are you serious. Publish the score? I think you might be just be referrng to European classical music, like there is nothing else.
 

Jimbob54

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Chains may be being yanked here.
 

whazzup

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Yes I understand this argument and maybe I'm belabouring the point now, so I'll stop posting after this for a little while. But let's take karajan and berlin phil for example. Its generally thought that a lot of the deutsche grammophon recordings of his are really sub-standard compared to say, something that decca would produce. In some cases it really does sound like they just used one stereo mic above the orchestra and post-processed everything else. And many a time I am sitting there listening and just moaning at the poor recording instead of focusing on the music and wondering whether there's a piece of equipment out there or some process that can make it sound 'better'.

Doesn't this happen to anybody here? Or am I succumbing to the dreaded bias and wasting my time?

So if I'm understanding your example correctly, you desire to post-process the recording into something of a much higher fidelity than it currently is.

The pursuit of virtual speaker simulations in headphones (HRTF, Smyth Realiser, etc) can be considered as one parallel to your cited example.
Another, in the field of image processing, is the research into colorizing old, faded, black & white photographs in a manner that looks natural and of a fidelity that matches modern day equivalents. The most recent attempts have been done through the use of machine learning algorithms.

And yet another I remembered reading about, in video processing, was the work done by fans in restoring/upscaling old Star Trek episodes into something much higher res, and that actually looks like it was originally shot that way, again with machine learning algos and analysis.

So based on my understanding of what you're asking, I would say that while it's probably doable (post-process a recording into something 'better'), it's definitely not going to be a trivial undertaking that can be accomplished with a couple pieces of consumer electronic equipment.


Again, using your example, say a series of EQ filters are applied to make recording A sound 'much better' (to your ears). But these filters will probably screw up recording B and you'll need to do another set of filters just for B. And so on.

Oh. Another example is the autotune algorithm. Not the Cher effect, but how the producers use it in more subtle ways to correct vocals. In your case, you're talking about some magic auto tune algorithm that will analyse and 'fix' your recoding.
 
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Easternlethal

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Well yes I am thinking of post-processing and I guess that's why I came here - to see if the measured data from the precision analyser can be used to give us more insight into our own biases and also manufacturers' tweaks instead of just revealing how accurate they are.

I know some think it's a rabbit hole, but that just about sums up what music is to me. It's a rabbit hole I love.

Are you serious. Publish the score? I think you might be just be referrng to European classical music, like there is nothing else.
My point is that unless what we're hearing is from outer space there are other data points we can take on top of the recording itself to get a better of understanding of what we're hearing. You might argue about whether that's worth doing or not but they are still there.

And by the way, all forms of music can and frequently do have scores. Not just 'european classical music'.
 
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Wombat

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I haven't read all of the posts but here goes:

If the source-recording playback equipment is accurate, the tonality issue is in the recording. Given the wide variation in recordings the tonality thing is a dead-end.

Stop worrying about such minutiae that you don't have control of.
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solderdude

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Importance of Tonality (?)

Very important.
On the recording side (mics, tone control, effects, tonality of the used monitors, room and preference/experience of engineers and others involved in that process). On the playback side it is the most important aspect. Highly modifiable using EQ, selecting speakers, room properties and or treatment/positioning. For headphones also many aspects are in play that will sometimes even drastically change tonality.

At the recording side some people can and will (and thus do) influence not only tonality but other aspects as well on each of the many individual 'tracks'. After the product is finished one cannot pull them apart.
Some people still think equipment does treat each 'instrument' individually though. Not the case though.

On playback side one can change whatever they like but all changes affect the complete recording, not just one instrument even though it might sound or appear that way to many.

Then there is taste and tonal character of transducers that interact with ears and space around the ears.

Importance of Tonality (?) The most important but not the only important aspect.
 

tuga

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What is the purpose of the equipment?

This is subjective but I think that for most people the purpose of the system is to provide maximum listening enjoyment.

For some people that means equipment (and a room) which reproduces the recording with a high level of accuracy or fidelity, for others the recording needs to be "complemented" through the use of "euphonic distortion(s)" – a tailored reproduction, and some have a foot on both camps.
 

solderdude

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The purpose of the equipment is a means to an end which in most cases is to provide listening enjoyment.

Finding the 'maximum' of it differs in approach for each individual.
It can be done by changing out certain equipment (speakers/headphones is the biggest influence) but also by other means.

In the end, the owner decides what he likes and what he is willing to spend and why. Tonality is by far the biggest factor but not the only one.
 
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Blumlein 88

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Or in other words hifi is 85% frequency response. So is tonality of musical enjoyment.
 
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