I'm surprised so many audio companies exist

[beeface]

Look, I know this is a mundane observation, but I genuinely struggle to get my head around it.

I say this as someone who has an interest in audio but isn't in the "scene", so I don't personally know anyone who buys serious audio gear.

There are hundreds of audio companies[citation needed] when you include the small players.
Dozens of products that cost six figures, countless that cost five.
Weird, expensive, esoteric handmade stuff, like step-up transformers from Germany or tube amps from Japan, etc.

I don't really keep up with most of the stuff being sold these days, so I had a quick look through a Stereophile show report from this year to confirm if this is still the case.
There's still all the power conditioners and cables, of course. There's still those weird half-million dollar MBL speakers. Room diffusers to put on your floor that look like something my toddler would enjoy climbing. $50k planar speakers from some company I've never heard of. How many sales do the manufacturers and distributors need to break even?

I'm aware that there are wealthy customers who decide they want a nice sound system, but I'd have to imagine many of them just get a home theatre installed. Or if it's a stereo, something big and expensive but somewhat traditional like Focal, B&W or even Wilson.

With all of this in mind, it's a niche hobby. basically invisible - the average layman has no idea that most of this stuff exists. and they'd laugh if they heard how much people spend on it. It's just hard for me to fathom that the pie be so big that all of these people are getting a piece.

 

[MattHooper]

I agree. I enjoy watching videos of audio shows and I'm constantly astounded at how many different high end audio manufacturers there are. Especially when a north american native like me gets a peek at the products from Asia and Europe, you realize there's a whole undiscovered world of gear you aren't familiar with.

 

[kemmler3D]

Look, I know this is a mundane observation, but I genuinely struggle to get my head around it.

I say this as someone who has an interest in audio but isn't in the "scene", so I don't personally know anyone who buys serious audio gear.

There are hundreds of audio companies[citation needed] when you include the small players.
Dozens of products that cost six figures, countless that cost five.
Weird, expensive, esoteric handmade stuff, like step-up transformers from Germany or tube amps from Japan, etc.

I don't really keep up with most of the stuff being sold these days, so I had a quick look through a Stereophile show report from this year to confirm if this is still the case.
There's still all the power conditioners and cables, of course. There's still those weird half-million dollar MBL speakers. Room diffusers to put on your floor that look like something my toddler would enjoy climbing. $50k planar speakers from some company I've never heard of. How many sales do the manufacturers and distributors need to break even?

I'm aware that there are wealthy customers who decide they want a nice sound system, but I'd have to imagine many of them just get a home theatre installed. Or if it's a stereo, something big and expensive but somewhat traditional like Focal, B&W or even Wilson.

With all of this in mind, it's a niche hobby. basically invisible - the average layman has no idea that most of this stuff exists. and they'd laugh if they heard how much people spend on it. It's just hard for me to fathom that the pie be so big that all of these people are getting a piece.

Agree that it doesn't totally make sense in my mind either.

Like Magico... really high production cost, really high production quality, 5 figures for the most part. Quality or no, how many units can they possibly sell per year? 100 or 200? There aren't that many 0.01%ers are there?

Magico basically makes sense though since it's respectable. But what about all those oddball brands? It's wild to me that Zu exists for example, and the even more obscure high-end brands...

 

[BR52]

I agree. I enjoy watching videos of audio shows and I'm constantly astounded at how many different high end audio manufacturers there are. Especially when a north american native like me gets a peek at the products from Asia and Europe, you realize there's a whole undiscovered world of gear you aren't familiar with.

You are right North America is only a part of the world. (;-)

 

[sergeauckland]

Agree that it doesn't totally make sense in my mind either.

Like Magico... really high production cost, really high production quality, 5 figures for the most part. Quality or no, how many units can they possibly sell per year? 100 or 200? There aren't that many 0.01%ers are there?

Magico basically makes sense though since it's respectable. But what about all those oddball brands? It's wild to me that Zu exists for example, and the even more obscure high-end brands...

Especially when products like Zu are so objectively awful. I suppose people can be persuaded anything sounds good in a biased dealer demo when the high price obscures the poor audio quality.

S

 

[audio_tony]

This may look off topic but bear with me....

When A/V systems first became so popular, a lot of industry commentators speculated that stereo was going to die a death.

And I do know of a few people who got rid of their stereo systems and bought heavily into multi channel, only to find that the sound quality of the A/V system couldn't match their previous stereo system.

So they either sold the A/V system and bought a new stereo system, or just kept the A/V system and ran the new stereo system alongside it.

Net result; stereo suddenly underwent a revival, and spawned a few new smaller companies, which has brought us to where we are today.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[amirm]

There are thousands of audio companies out there. The market is not "logical" in that anything sells without the need to prove performance. So bad and good companies get to live side by side.

 

[BR52]

There are thousands of audio companies out there. The market is not "logical" in that anything sells without the need to prove performance. So bad and good companies get to live side by side.

In the audio business for so many years, there was no control from independent testers and only a marketing battle to find the best words for things that did not exist. Since @amirm, the time has changed a little, and hopefully it will sort out the fouls more to have more competition for the real things in audio.

 

[Dunring]

I was just shopping on Audiogon and blown away by the number of boutique brands I never heard of selling for crazy money. The $5,900 power cord was the crazy price award winner. It's like wine, art, or people who pay millions for an old car that won a race in the 60's.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I have known this site for years and it seems to be regularly updated.

Enjoy

Audio Related Internet Site List © - updated daily by Steve Ekblad

Audio Related Internet Site List - updated daily by Steve Ekblad

www.audiogrid.com

Peace.

 

[beeface]

Hi

I have known this ire for years and it seems to be regularly updated.

Enjoy

Audio Related Internet Site List © - updated daily by Steve Ekblad

Audio Related Internet Site List - updated daily by Steve Ekblad

www.audiogrid.com

Wow. Whoever maintains this site is truly dedicated

 

[Bridges]

Agree that it doesn't totally make sense in my mind either.

Like Magico... really high production cost, really high production quality, 5 figures for the most part. Quality or no, how many units can they possibly sell per year? 100 or 200? There aren't that many 0.01%ers are there?

Magico basically makes sense though since it's respectable. But what about all those oddball brands? It's wild to me that Zu exists for example, and the even more obscure high-end brands...

It's wide,wide world, those who can afford Magico, and MBL are well served with outstanding serious products manufactured in proper facilities by competent engineers. Then there are also marginal companies like Zu and Devore who manage to have a following of misguided audiophiles who pay extravagant prices for speakers that can be matched or bettered for a fraction of the price by most DIY audiophiles. Is there any financial data on those hundreds of companies?

 

[TonyJZX]

i am reminded of the fact that we have over 60 car brands we can choose from and that has massive barriers to entry

i would suppose that in some cases anyone can purport to be an "audio products" supplier.... and further there would be a lot of bleed from other industries ie. the general electronics groups

 

[robh]

Wow. Whoever maintains this site is truly dedicated

And yet Ascend isn't listed - the first one I looked up. So if they missed them, they probably missed a lot.

With all of this in mind, it's a niche hobby. basically invisible - the average layman has no idea that most of this stuff exists. and they'd laugh if they heard how much people spend on it. It's just hard for me to fathom that the pie be so big that all of these people are getting a piece.

The number of people who are rich who seek out those brands are even less. Normally very rich people just offload the entire process to somebody else. "You, go build me a home theater". In which case, the AV installer will use the more popular brands he sells in his shop, can make a profit on, and not necessarily use those more esoteric brands.

 

[MattHooper]

It's wild to me that Zu exists for example, and the even more obscure high-end brands...

When I finally heard Zu speakers at an audio show understood their appeal. They had one of the more vivid and “alive” sounds I heard at that show. I wouldn’t buy them myself, but I get why some audiophiles would go for that sound.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

It's not just audio, it's many categories.

Lots of people start companies because they have a passion, and they start small. For many products, say cables, the cost of entry is very low. I could start a part time cable company pretty easily, but never would. Someone who is good with woodworking can source speaker components and do a direct to consumer business very easily. Grow from there, and you eventually get quite a few products.

Sales, not easy. Starting up, easy.

For the high end, there is a different story. Very wealthy people don't care about money, in the sense that "how much you pay" is irrelevant. And no one of the true upper classes would ever ask about how much this stuff costs. No, what they ask about is "how did you find out about it, why is it so good?" They want to be able to tell a story that gives them status with other people, and that status comes from knowing things and tracking things down.

Put another way, if the other mansions in the area are running Wilson, you don't get to impress anyone with Wilson. But this brand no one heard of, that is made of granite so "it is far more inert than any other speaker, and they source their granite from this special quarry that provides granite to the Vatican, and..." New(er) super high end brands are quite literally status symbols for people who have the money not to be limited in what they can buy. Different, new, that leads to conversation. Known (Magico, Wilson) get's the acknowledgement of quality and then we move on. It's about the story. And the music for some, but the story is what sells the gear. The story will be told over and over again.

There is a lot more going on, I am sure. But I think easy to start low, and stories sell the high explains a lot of the numbers of companies in many sectors.

 

[anmpr1]

i am reminded of the fact that we have over 60 car brands we can choose from and that has massive barriers to entry

i would suppose that in some cases anyone can purport to be an "audio products" supplier.... and further there would be a lot of bleed from other industries ie. the general electronics groups

With automobiles you have consolidation. VW group is an example, where costs, some parts, along with R&D, can be shared across lines: VW, Skoda, Audi, SEAT, Lamborghini, Bentley, Bugatti, Porsche, and even Ducati (although I don't know how the last name shares R&D). The W-16 that's in your Bugatti weekender is a 'downsized' W-12 that's under the hood of your daily driver Bentley, which was derived from the W-8 that might have been in your old Passat, when your business first started to take off, itself the big brother of the 2 liter in-line four that powered your Golf, when you first started your business.

Look at the varied analog LP cartridge makers. As far as I know there are only two Japanese diamond/stylus sources: Obray (Namiki/Adamant) and Ogura Industrial Jewels. They sell the guts, and then everyone else winds coils and builds bodies. Large makers such as A/T often OEM cartridges for third parties, as do some of the even smaller outfits that assemble ready made parts from their own existing tooling. When Mark Levinson sells you a MC cartridge, it's just sourced from one of a handful of actual cartridge makers.

In they heyday of Japanese audio, certain components were variously branded OEM products--cassette decks, CD players and so forth. Turntables too. Sony, Denon, JVC and others just put their names on them--designs that were customized just enough to hide their origin. Now most of that sort of thing is done in Chinese factories.

I think it's that way across a lot of industries. The vast majority of electric guitars are made by a small number of operations in Indonesia and China. A few of the more 'expensive' mass produced guitars are made in Korea. If you have enough money for a small run, you can get one of these OEMs to put your name on the headstock, and become a guitar 'manufacturer'.

So if there are a lot of audio manufacturers, it doesn't necessarily mean there are a lot of audio manufacturers.

 

[OldHvyMec]

7.9 billion people. That blows my mind.

385,000 babies are born every day.

166,300 people die every day.

I was at a place with 325,000 people in a pretty small area. I'd never seen that many people get along, and move along.
NOW add a ZERO.

NOW add 3 more ZEROs and double that.

Welcome to earth.

In a world of numbers, ants and flies are up there.

Magico. To think there are (probably) prototypes of ONE pair.

In your home YOU have two unique ears like no other in the whole world. 2 of 7.9 billion pairs of ears and they are different one from the other.

Too much coffee? Maybe!

Regards

 

[Bridges]

Especially when products like Zu are so objectively awful. I suppose people can be persuaded anything sounds good in a biased dealer demo when the high price obscures the poor audio quality.

S

Here is my experience with Zu: I bought a pair without ever hearing them based on reviews of the likes of the Audiophiliac plus a very cheap price. Within 2 minutes of audition, I put them up for sale, not so easy here in Europe. Finally they got stolen out of my garage, a big thank you to the thief, hope he keeps them, he will surely go deaf.

 

[sweetchaos]

I’ve created a master list of speaker companies.

Master List of Speaker Companies

Intro: - I created a master list of speaker companies around the world. :D -=List of Speaker Companies=- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vTXjxK1PmiVdrmwDJJ156K1cFUc9kiXYU8E4VUDdYB-vbwDM5zoi3KddrVWrgr0OPHpxHtpwuJovcuq/pubhtml# Changelog:

www.audiosciencereview.com

Over 1000 found.