If I didn't like Infinity speakers, would I like Revels?

[Emuc64]

Okay, this is true? You are not happy with the following combo:

Speaker:

The Reference 152 is the smallest member of the Reference Collection
Frequency Response60Hz –22kHz

Infinity REFERENCE 152 | 5-1/4" 2-Way Bookshelf Speakers

Infinity REFERENCE 152 two way compact bookshelf speakers have innovative sleek designs and compelling lifelike surround sound, great for smaller rooms.

www.infinityspeakers.com

---
Sub: Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus Subwoofer

Specifications

Driver Type: Down Firing, 12 "Long-throw Woofer
Amplifier Power Rating: 350WRMS; 1300W peak
Frequency Response: 25Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB w / o Port Plug
18Hz.-180Hz +/- 2dB w / one port plugged
Crossover Type: Linkwitz-Reily 4th Order Low Pass Network

Crossover Frequency: 40Hz to 180Hz and Bypass

SPL: 115dB (subject to placement and room gain)

Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus Powered Subwoofer

How did you connect the speakers and integrate the sub-speakers?

Have you tried moving the sub in your listening room? Or how did you come to the conclusion that the placement you have now is the best to get the best sound?

Edit:
For Infinity, REFERENCE 152

Recommended Amplifier Power20 –125 Watts
Sensitivity87dB
Nominal Impedance8 Ohms

If you play music at high volume, do they not start distorting?

Integration of sub-bookshelf speakers. I do not know if it might be possible to improve there?. Depends, among other things, on what you have for LP-HP filters. Crossover frequency.

I was most curious. If there is potential with that combo, I leave it to those on the forum who can integration sub-speakers to give you tips and advice.

Good luck!

Speakers are connected to the AVR red/black terminals, oxygen-free copper, 16awg, and using banana plugs. The subwoofer is also connected to the AVR using a 25ft RCA cable. I think it was an Amazon Basics subwoofer cable. Integration was by using the included room correction on the Sony (I know it's not the best at calibrations).

Unfortunately, the sub only has one real spot I could place it, next to the couch. It's pulled 1 ft away from the wall and the woofer & ports are all down firing. I did not do a sub crawl in this room.

When I tried the Infinity Reference 152, I did play a selection of music at high volume (not reference level) and I didn't hear any distortion. Crossover frequency is set at 80hz.

 

[Chrispy]

I keep wondering though, doesn't it defeat the reason to have bigger speakers by always setting them as small?

From a speaker design standpoint, wouldn't it be a lot easier for a company to design a speaker that didn't do anything below 80hz since people wouldn't be using it below that point? Aren't they generally making compromises and investing a fair amount into getting those lower frequencies. The old "small, efficient, decent bass; pick any 2" line. I'm sure it would be a hard sell with an expensive speaker that didn't go below 80Hz but I wonder if it would be easier to get the rest of the performance better?

You're free to use whatever speakers you like. Might be nice if we could have more choice in filter slopes in avrs, tho. There are reasons to use subs even if you actually have full range speakers, which most do not.

 

[Emuc64]

Do you live where you can go listen to some speakers in person? Listening to a variety in person might help you identify what you are missing.

What subwoofer are you using in your listening room? With smaller speakers a sub can make a big difference and how the sub is integrated can make an even bigger difference. Without the automatic integration of the AVR it can overwhelm the speaker and make it sound 'blah' for lack of a better word or it can leave the lower frequencies lacking.

With the pandemic and all, I have only ventured out a few times. I think the best I could do is Best Buy's Magnolia department. Last I went, a) their system was down due to a power outage in the area a few days prior, b) they don't carry Revel, Infinity, or internet direct lines like Emotiva Airmotiv B1+. I did want to try KEFs and ELACs out.

Subwoofer is an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus all managed by the Sony AVR. It's not really the low-end that I feel is lacking. It's more the mid & highs...

In talking through this with you all... how do I find speakers that sound like the old Paradigm Studio 100 v2's? Old v.2's have tweeter fluid problems, so I'm hesitant to purchase used. New Paradigm don't sound as good and are supposedly over priced. Even more, those prices for the 2nd most expensive Paradigm line now puts it close with Revel. Which is sort of how I got here.

 

[eddantes]

Hey that's pretty cool being able to "see the differences." If sound is subjective, how do I know if that Harman tilt is what I should look for? Or is that a preference, like one person liking a lot of bass?

Regarding the PPR, is that an absolute number where the higher the number is, the more likely any individual will like it more?

Well you are at the right website to ask those questions. Firstly, feel free to look up Dr. Floyd Toole, Dr. Sean Olive and the work they've done to establish the Harman curve and the Olive Preference Rating. As for the short, opinionated, answer: based on the reasearch above you will "likely" prefer the Harman curve and as for Olive Preference rating - better is better - but I'm not sure how to judge the delta in scores yet - it's something I'm learning. In my own experience - I have a speaker that scores 5.5 and another that scores 5.6 and a non-blind, volume matched, A/B test - I do prefer the ones with the higher score.

 

[richard12511]

View attachment 162795

Just looking at the PIR... I would expect these to sound dramatically different, with the M16 likely being a proper full-range speaker and the R162 being bright. So... Yeah... for the extra $$ you would likely like the M16 more.

Also the PPR of 4.9 (R162) to 5.5 (M16) suggests that "YES - you will prefer the M16."

Seemingly the M16 has an intentional bass boost and deviation from the typical Revel sound, so I'd be curious to see that comparison with other a more typical Revel(flat) response.

 

[richard12511]

This heavily depends on the AVR in question. In most, they set the filters to 80hz if small, and 40-60hz if large. Most recommendations I've seen is to pass at 80 rather than trying to go low even with full range speakers.

Yamaha and Denon "large" runs the speakers full range, which is definitely not recommended. I set my 8351b(32Hz -3dB) to small, and always recommend setting any/all speakers to small, regardless of bass extension.

 

[Chrispy]

Yamaha and Denon "large" runs the speakers full range, which is definitely not recommended. I set my 8351b(32Hz -3dB) to small, and always recommend setting any/all speakers to small, regardless of bass extension.

Marantz, Pioneer, Onkyo, Integra and Sony as well IME. If using a sub definitely set those speakers to small, using incapable speakers without subs, meh.

 

[Emuc64]

Well you are at the right website to ask those questions. Firstly, feel free to look up Dr. Floyd Toole, Dr. Sean Olive and the work they've done to establish the Harman curve and the Olive Preference Rating. As for the short, opinionated, answer: based on the reasearch above you will "likely" prefer the Harman curve and as for Olive Preference rating - better is better - but I'm not sure how to judge the delta in scores yet - it's something I'm learning. In my own experience - I have a speaker that scores 5.5 and another that scores 5.6 and a non-blind, volume matched, A/B test - I do prefer the ones with the higher score.

I suppose I do have to brush up on their work. I did see the one article with pictures of Dr. Toole's reference theater room in his home. (That was an engineer's setup > spousal aesthetics acceptance; I bet it sounds great.) I saw that he uses Revels in his HT.

 

[prerich]

I wouldn't expect Infinity to be on par with Revel at all....

Some earlier models were...the prelude models (P-FR and MTS), the Intermezzo line, and the IL60's.

 

[prerich]

I suppose I do have to brush up on their work. I did see the one article with pictures of Dr. Toole's reference theater room in his home. (That was an engineer's setup > spousal aesthetics acceptance; I bet it sounds great.) I saw that he uses Revels in his HT.

Before that, he had Infinity Prelude MTS...his own design.

 

[gbrnole]

i would venture to guess the biggest problem is that you have three distinctly different voiced speaker brands in your room. wharfedale have a distinctly british sound to them and i believe you said they are floorstanders to boot. the klipsch will be in your face with the highs. the voicing of those R152's is probably sitting in a pocket somewhere in middle of the other two?

if you like the R152's at lower volume then i would suspect you would like revel at any volume. tough to gauge at high volume levels on the infinity due to much higher distortion relative to the revels.

 

[Chrispy]

Some earlier models were...the prelude models (P-FR and MTS), the Intermezzo line, and the IL60's.

I meant currently....yes, they did some nice stuff in the past.