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If I didn't like Infinity speakers, would I like Revels?

Emuc64

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Hello!

Background:
I'm a recent reader of many of ASR's reviews and appreciate the science based approach of the reviews, even though many times it's a little over my head. Over the past couple of years, I've read about a bunch of brands and speakers I've never heard of before as I was happy and didn't pay much attention to the audio world. In the process of redecorating and getting a listening room / home office, I've tried out a few sets of speakers for the listening part of the room: Infinity Reference 152 (returned), Klipsch RP-160M (sold to a friend), & Wharfedale 11.4 (current - but not entirely happy with them) - all of them paired with an Outlaw LFM1-Plus subwoofer and powered by a spare AVR. For what it's worth, I also have a pair of Klipsch RP-150Ms used as my desktop speakers and they're fine for the office portion (50% gaming, 40% videos, 10% music). Certainly an upgrade over my previous set of PC speakers.

Question:
I didn't like the Infinity R152; it felt like something was missing. My question is, if I didn't like Infinity speakers, would I like Revels? The Infinity R162 has a Yes recommendation. The Revel Performa3, PerformaBe, and Concerta2 of various types are also recommended. I've read that Infinity have trickle down design/technology from Revel. So, is there a correlation of the way one brand is to another with Harman owning both? Even within brands, say Revel - is there a difference between series?

My analogy is like shopping for cars. Fictitious example: I disliked a particular Toyota I tried, so I should consider Lexus? With the same parent company I know the vehicles may share technology, parts, and/or design philosophy. Of course, within the Toyota brand, a Corolla is very different to an Avalon, which may/may not compare to a Lexus LS.

This hobby can get expensive with diminishing results the more money one spends. So I want to get some idea if I should even dip my toes in the Revel price bracket, if I wasn't keen on the Infinity I tried.

Thanks for any insights.
 

JeffS7444

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Before you spend more money, could you provide details as to your AVR, and what steps you've taken to configure it for your current speaker setup?
 

preload

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Hello!

Background:
I'm a recent reader of many of ASR's reviews and appreciate the science based approach of the reviews, even though many times it's a little over my head. Over the past couple of years, I've read about a bunch of brands and speakers I've never heard of before as I was happy and didn't pay much attention to the audio world. In the process of redecorating and getting a listening room / home office, I've tried out a few sets of speakers for the listening part of the room: Infinity Reference 152 (returned), Klipsch RP-160M (sold to a friend), & Wharfedale 11.4 (current - but not entirely happy with them) - all of them paired with an Outlaw LFM1-Plus subwoofer and powered by a spare AVR. For what it's worth, I also have a pair of Klipsch RP-150Ms used as my desktop speakers and they're fine for the office portion (50% gaming, 40% videos, 10% music). Certainly an upgrade over my previous set of PC speakers.

Question:
I didn't like the Infinity R152; it felt like something was missing. My question is, if I didn't like Infinity speakers, would I like Revels? The Infinity R162 has a Yes recommendation. The Revel Performa3, PerformaBe, and Concerta2 of various types are also recommended. I've read that Infinity have trickle down design/technology from Revel. So, is there a correlation of the way one brand is to another with Harman owning both? Even within brands, say Revel - is there a difference between series?

My analogy is like shopping for cars. Fictitious example: I disliked a particular Toyota I tried, so I should consider Lexus? With the same parent company I know the vehicles may share technology, parts, and/or design philosophy. Of course, within the Toyota brand, a Corolla is very different to an Avalon, which may/may not compare to a Lexus LS.

This hobby can get expensive with diminishing results the more money one spends. So I want to get some idea if I should even dip my toes in the Revel price bracket, if I wasn't keen on the Infinity I tried.

Thanks for any insights.

Aren’t the Infinity R152s $200 bookshelf speakers? If so, to answer your question, theres no way a product built for that design budget can be representative of the rest of the product line, particularly the flagship Revel lines that you mentioned.
 

Chrispy

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I wouldn't expect Infinity to be on par with Revel at all....
 

preload

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Aren’t the Infinity R152s $200 bookshelf speakers? If so, to answer your question, theres no way a product built for that design budget can be representative of the rest of the product line, particularly the flagship Revel lines that you mentioned.

Edit: although that being said, Amir reviewed the ref 253 and thought they sounded pretty good with a little eq.
 
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Senior NEET Engineer

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Probably not. The Revel F226Be's remind me of the Infinity P362's that I used to have.
 

Ninjastar

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What is it that you didn't like about the Infinity R152? "Something was missing" can be interpreted in different ways.

I don't have experience with the R152, but I used to own the larger R162 before I heard of this forum, and my impression was that they sounded too bright. This was confirmed by the Klippel NFS measurements provided by Amir.

Maybe if you could expound on what you didn't like about the R152, then members here with experience with Revel can help you better.
 

eddantes

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1635872807174.png


Just looking at the PIR... I would expect these to sound dramatically different, with the M16 likely being a proper full-range speaker and the R162 being bright. So... Yeah... for the extra $$ you would likely like the M16 more.

Also the PPR of 4.9 (R162) to 5.5 (M16) suggests that "YES - you will prefer the M16."
 

DanielT

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Okay, this is true? You are not happy with the following combo:

Speaker:

The Reference 152 is the smallest member of the Reference Collection
Frequency Response60Hz –22kHz


---
Sub: Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus Subwoofer

Specifications

Driver Type: Down Firing, 12 "Long-throw Woofer
Amplifier Power Rating: 350WRMS; 1300W peak
Frequency Response: 25Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB w / o Port Plug
18Hz.-180Hz +/- 2dB w / one port plugged
Crossover Type: Linkwitz-Reily 4th Order Low Pass Network

Crossover Frequency: 40Hz to 180Hz and Bypass

SPL: 115dB (subject to placement and room gain)




How did you connect the speakers and integrate the sub-speakers?

Have you tried moving the sub in your listening room? Or how did you come to the conclusion that the placement you have now is the best to get the best sound?

Edit:
For Infinity, REFERENCE 152

Recommended Amplifier Power20 –125 Watts
Sensitivity87dB
Nominal Impedance8 Ohms


If you play music at high volume, do they not start distorting?

Integration of sub-bookshelf speakers. I do not know if it might be possible to improve there?. Depends, among other things, on what you have for LP-HP filters. Crossover frequency.

I was most curious. If there is potential with that combo, I leave it to those on the forum who can integration sub-speakers to give you tips and advice.:)

Good luck!
 
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Emuc64

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Before you spend more money, could you provide details as to your AVR, and what steps you've taken to configure it for your current speaker setup?
Layout & config:
It's a Sony STR-DH740, ~9 years old. The room is roughly 11' x 13', carpeted, 3rd bedroom, now office. Couch is along one of the 13' walls, the Wharfedale 11.4 floor standing speakers are on the other side, sitting ~8ft away on a couch. For the room setup, only next to the couch would fit the subwoofer. On one of the 11ft walls is my computer desk that has the Klipsch RP-150M bookshelves. One pair is set to L/R "A" set, the other pair is set to L/R "B" set. The AVR does not have a zone 2. Audio is mainly fed to the AVR via optical cable to stream music.

I used the included mic for room calibration. Crossover set to 80hz. Floorstanding speakers are set to small. I have not taken the next step to get a UMIK-1 mic or learn how to use REW - that's uncharted territory for me.
 

eddantes

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Do not set your speakers to small. Take a look at some ASR reviews and you will see that doing so generally forces the AVR to do some sort of processing and rather drags down the performance. You might as well set them to large.
 

sgent

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Do not set your speakers to small. Take a look at some ASR reviews and you will see that doing so generally forces the AVR to do some sort of processing and rather drags down the performance. You might as well set them to large.
This heavily depends on the AVR in question. In most, they set the filters to 80hz if small, and 40-60hz if large. Most recommendations I've seen is to pass at 80 rather than trying to go low even with full range speakers.
 

eddantes

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This heavily depends on the AVR in question. In most, they set the filters to 80hz if small, and 40-60hz if large. Most recommendations I've seen is to pass at 80 rather than trying to go low even with full range speakers.
Not a problem, unless you are listening to extremely loud volume and are driving the speakers into distortion. At normal listening volume - ought not to be a factor.
 
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Emuc64

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What is it that you didn't like about the Infinity R152? "Something was missing" can be interpreted in different ways.

I don't have experience with the R152, but I used to own the larger R162 before I heard of this forum, and my impression was that they sounded too bright. This was confirmed by the Klippel NFS measurements provided by Amir.

Maybe if you could expound on what you didn't like about the R152, then members here with experience with Revel can help you better.

In my living room, I have a 5.2 HT set consisting of L/R Paradigm Studio 100 v.2's, Center CC v.2, Atom v3 for surrounds, and 2x SVS SB-2000's. To me, games, movies, and the bit of music I listen on it, sound great. I'm trying to replicate that in my listening room. That's kind of my frame of reference.

Comparatively, the Infinity sounded kind of flat? I tried the Klipsch in the living room to compare and while it's "lively" it's also slightly too bright compared to my Paradigms. In the "listening room", the Infinity again sounded flat, and the Klipsch a touch bright. So I ended up the Wharfedales because they are "easy to listen to", but again... I felt like something is missing.
 

Atlantic

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Revels are better than the Infinity since I have both. But if you are not liking the Infinity, then I am not sure what you are looking for.

The Revels are a little more clear, much better imaging, natural sounding. If the Revels are a 10, then the Infinitys are a 8 or 8.5.

You could buy it from Crutchfield. I think they offer a trial period for 60 days? Just return it in its original condition if you don't like it.
 

Chrispy

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This heavily depends on the AVR in question. In most, they set the filters to 80hz if small, and 40-60hz if large. Most recommendations I've seen is to pass at 80 rather than trying to go low even with full range speakers.
I've not seen an avr that applies a filter if "large" at 40-60hz; further, if set small it merely lets you set crossover, never saw an automatic one (except for a setup routine, where the manufacturer of the avr may use a particularl measured f3 to set large or to suggest a crossover). It's normally not filtered (i.e. large means do not use bass management). In some avrs you might still be able to set the high pass filter, tho.
 
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Chrispy

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Do not set your speakers to small. Take a look at some ASR reviews and you will see that doing so generally forces the AVR to do some sort of processing and rather drags down the performance. You might as well set them to large.
Defeats having bass management then. One of the major reasons to use an avr.
 
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Emuc64

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View attachment 162795

Just looking at the PIR... I would expect these to sound dramatically different, with the M16 likely being a proper full-range speaker and the R162 being bright. So... Yeah... for the extra $$ you would likely like the M16 more.

Also the PPR of 4.9 (R162) to 5.5 (M16) suggests that "YES - you will prefer the M16."
Hey that's pretty cool being able to "see the differences." If sound is subjective, how do I know if that Harman tilt is what I should look for? Or is that a preference, like one person liking a lot of bass?

Regarding the PPR, is that an absolute number where the higher the number is, the more likely any individual will like it more?
 

ta240

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Defeats having bass management then. One of the major reasons to use an avr.

I keep wondering though, doesn't it defeat the reason to have bigger speakers by always setting them as small?

From a speaker design standpoint, wouldn't it be a lot easier for a company to design a speaker that didn't do anything below 80hz since people wouldn't be using it below that point? Aren't they generally making compromises and investing a fair amount into getting those lower frequencies. The old "small, efficient, decent bass; pick any 2" line. I'm sure it would be a hard sell with an expensive speaker that didn't go below 80Hz but I wonder if it would be easier to get the rest of the performance better?
 

ta240

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Hey that's pretty cool being able to "see the differences." If sound is subjective, how do I know if that Harman tilt is what I should look for? Or is that a preference, like one person liking a lot of bass?

Regarding the PPR, is that an absolute number where the higher the number is, the more likely any individual will like it more?

Do you live where you can go listen to some speakers in person? Listening to a variety in person might help you identify what you are missing.

What subwoofer are you using in your listening room? With smaller speakers a sub can make a big difference and how the sub is integrated can make an even bigger difference. Without the automatic integration of the AVR it can overwhelm the speaker and make it sound 'blah' for lack of a better word or it can leave the lower frequencies lacking.
 
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