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I replaced my AVR with a Flex HT, but don't recommend it.

Yeah exactly, but rtings says that about almost all TVs, and most only do 2 channel. LGs are the occasional exceptions to my knowledge.
That's not good, do they know they are getting it wrong?
 
I can definitely use Dirac and then fine tune it with the mini's PEQ and/or even crossovers, but I am using the PC version. Are you saying that if you use the mini with the regular Dirac then you cannot use PEQ on top?
Non dirac minidsp (eg 2x4 hd or regular flex without dirac) have the possibility of input eq, which is necessary e.g. for multistage optimization with mso. The flex ht series do not offer this.
 
Imo, if D+M upgrade the Cinema 70 and the AVR-X1800H with XT32/sub EQ HT, and from 1 to 2 discrete subouts, I would 100% recommend them. Those two are much simpler to use and weight a lot less, especially the C70 that also save space. If that happens, I might even considering selling my Flex HT, but will likely keep the HTx for the analogs.
Yeah, those would be great. I don't even mind the poor Audyssey version since OCA stuff exists. What I'm getting at is that I'm starting to feel like you're either a soundbar kinda person or a mad scientist kinda tinkering person - or maybe there's a third kind that likes vinyl and Wharfedale Lintons. For all these people, the Cinema 70s (and most AVRs) is not a great choice. And what personally bugs me about the 70s is the bloat. It has about 30 connections I will never use.
 
input eq, which is necessary e.g. for multistage optimization with mso
This isn't quite true. MSO multistage optimization requires shared filters, which can either be applied at the input stage or replicated on every sub output channel. Which does obviously count against the 18 total filters available on the flex, which is why I wish more were available when not using Dirac.
 
Yeah, those would be great. I don't even mind the poor Audyssey version since OCA stuff exists. What I'm getting at is that I'm starting to feel like you're either a soundbar kinda person or a mad scientist kinda tinkering person - or maybe there's a third kind that likes vinyl and Wharfedale Lintons. For all these people, the Cinema 70s (and most AVRs) is not a great choice. And what personally bugs me about the 70s is the bloat. It has about 30 connections I will never use.

The OCA stuff needs Audyssey, so I think XT 32 will still help.
 
The OCA stuff needs Audyssey, so I think XT 32 will still help.
I think it's only advantageous in the newest version. The previous versions I guess have been PEQ only, so the taps don't make a difference
 
rtings.com says they have tested 155 of 473 TVs that pass through surround sound
 
The only general TV (local + cable content) streaming service that provides surround is YouTube. Does anyone know of others?
 
This isn't quite true. MSO multistage optimization requires shared filters, which can either be applied at the input stage or replicated on every sub output channel. Which does obviously count against the 18 total filters available on the flex, which is why I wish more were available when not using Dirac.
I was referring to the mso manual: https://www.andyc.diy-audio-engineering.org/mso/html/index.html

"The DSP device must provide separate EQ and delay adjustments for each sub individually. If there are no input channel filters available in the mono signal path of the DSP device before the signal's internal split into multiple channels, the potential of MSO can't be fully realized."

If you found another solution working, maybe you can post a link with further information.
 
I was referring to the mso manual: https://www.andyc.diy-audio-engineering.org/mso/html/index.html

"The DSP device must provide separate EQ and delay adjustments for each sub individually. If there are no input channel filters available in the mono signal path of the DSP device before the signal's internal split into multiple channels, the potential of MSO can't be fully realized."

If you found another solution working, maybe you can post a link with further information.

https://www.andyc.diy-audio-enginee...rence-manual/filter_report.html#biquad_enable

The Equivalence of Input Filters and Replicated Output Filters​

A useful filter equivalence relationship exists involving input filters and replicated output filters. Suppose you have an MSO shared sub channel with filters FL1, FL2, FL3 and FL4. An exact equivalent circuit can be made by removing these filters from the shared (input) channel and replicating all of them in all of the miniDSP output channels. Although somewhat wasteful of filters, one can make use of the biquads contained in the seldom-used miniDSP crossover filters to implement them. By using the Use miniDSP crossover biquads if output biquad limit exceeded option in the Application Options property sheet, the MSO biquad export will automatically do this filter equivalence transformation for you when needed. It will then automatically create the biquad text files to implement the extra filters using the crossover biquads if necessary.
 
It seems the fact that minidsp’s choice to standardize on the same dsp ic for all models is becoming a real bottleneck now that the have the HT models. All the features missing in the HT and HTx but present in the other Flex series are evidently due to this.

If they introduce an upgraded model, I hope they will use a more powerful IC so they can include those features on the Flex including the higher 96 kHz sampling rate. I wouldn’t mind paying a little more for that.
 
My holiday project and present to myself was to replace a Denon x4800h with a MiniDSP Flex HT system for 5.2 home theater. I had a blast doing this project and I’m sticking with the Flex HT. I like the MiniDSP tools much more and I like managing and tinkering with the system.

Should you replace your AVR with the HT Flex? Probably not. Although higher, it’s likely that the sonic/SINAD benefits are in the inaudible range. The Flex HT system probably more expensive, more complex, has more remotes, and lacks features compared to a good mid-range AVR. You are replacing one big box with several smaller boxes. MiniDSP accepts no returns and has no warranty.

Still interested? Here’s what I learned and did.

Despite being called a 'Multichannel Home Theater Processor', the Flex HT needs help to function as an AVR. The issue is that the Flex HT(x) system can only handle surround sound that is license-free, meaning it cannot decode any licensed compression formats like Dolby. To use the Flex HT as an AVR, licensed decoding must be done by a by another device (like an upstream video streamer) and then output in the unlicensed 'Uncompressed Multichannel LPCM' format via eARC to the Flex HT. (Uncompressed Multichannel LPCM can only be transmitted via eARC. )

In practice the above means the $600 HT requires two additional specialty devices (in addition to an external amplifier), raising the total cost another $400
  • A uncompressed multichannel LPCM video streaming source. Not much choice here. The ($149) Apple TV 4k video streamer is the only assured solution for Netflix, Hulu, Max etc... No other streamer works at the moment. Note that newer console gaming devices can also do uncompressed multichannel LPCM for many games and some better DVD/Bluray players also output uncompressed multichannel LPCM. It's just the video streamers that are behind although someone thinks the new Amazon Fire 4k might also work. Confusingly all TVs and streamers do 2 channels of uncompressed LPCM, which leads some people to think it will work multichannel, but it won't. Just get the Apple 4k.
  • An eARC splitter. This is a misunderstood and critical device. It doesn’t change the audio or do any decoding for the system. It’s just an active splitter (or switch) that splits the source HDMI (e.g. Apple TV 4k) into two: one 4k HDMI video to the TV display and one eARC HDMI audio to the Flex HT(x). HD Fury devices (cheapest is $249) are recommended but there are cheaper alternatives.
Setup and configuration

Once you have your devices, the routing is simple. Split the video source with your eARC splitter and route one cable to the TV and one to the Flex HT. Use good cables, eARC can be finicky.

View attachment 417821
Some tips I can share
  • The Apple TV 4k remote can learn 'mute' and 'volume' from the Flex HT, but not ‘preset’ or ‘source’ so you are still likely to use two remotes plus your TV remote. Apparently the minidsp remote codes in the old Logitech Harmony system work if you have one.
  • The MiniDSP console software only runs on a computer, something I didn't have in my home theater room. At first, I used a very long cable so I could use a laptop comfortably away from thescreen. Later, I bought a used i3 minicomputer and connected to it with remote control software. That way I can connect to it on my phone as well.
  • Down/Up mixing yourself – I had to create a preset on the MiniDSP for up-mixing older 2ch video sources to have a center channel if the dialog isn’t clear enough in stereo. I also created a 5.1 upmix for 2ch games and live sports events.
  • If you need a video input switch, the HD Fury VRROOM can be purchased for $550 (used about $425) and it works well, but adds another remote and app.
I am curious about the settings in your Apple TV 4K. Do you have to turn off Atmos in sound settings to disable metadata transmission or is it a non issue and simply not recognized at the receiving end regardless of the setting when playing Atmos tracks?

For those interested in sample rate/ bit depth matching, the Apple TV 4K only outputs 48/24 and Apple Music’s hi-res 192/24 output is not supported.

The Amazon Fire TV Gen 3 will also output uncompressed multichannel PCM when audio output is set to “Best Available” but it does not have a setting to turn off Atmos metadata like the Apple TV 4K.

Amazon Music Unlimited hi-res 192/24 in the Fire Cube is only supported for output when “Best Available” is selected for audio output. 8Ch uncompressed PCM 192/24 can be detected at the receiving end even when playing two channel tracks. This will result in processing and passthrough issues with some TVs, AVPs and AVRs.

The Fire Cube audio output and HDMI-CEC features are a mess as is the HDMI passthrough of the HDMI input port. I do not use it much at all anymore.

The Nvidia Shield TV Pro does not have a setting to output everything as uncompressed multichannel PCM. But, when down mixing Dolby and DTS signals to PCM 2.0, it can then up mix it to PCM 5.1 for output.

A universal disc player such as the Sony UBP-X800M2 can output all signals as multichannel PCM so discs and usb storage device files with multichannel Dolby, DSD and DTS tracks can be enjoyed when only PCM is supported at the receiving end.

I cannot comment on TVs supporting eARC other than my own in practice but it does support the 8CH uncompressed PCM 192/24 output signals of externally connected devices and would not require a splitter connected to the source device if I went with a Flex HT. Results for others will vary of course as eARC is all over the place among different TVs and streaming devices can complicate things even more so.
 
I am curious about the settings in your Apple TV 4K. Do you have to turn off Atmos in sound settings to disable metadata transmission
I did before but with the most recent update that option is gone. It continues to give me 8/6 PCM so I think it's a non issue
 
And I'm not able to find this anywhere else, can you have a separate config (stereo vs 5.1) based on input? I'm thinking 5.1 for eARC, stereo for SPDIF.
Not automatically. The presets don’t change based on input. You’d have to change the preset when you changed input, if you need this.
 
Most (all?) support 2 channel but not multi.
A key thing to check: more eARC TVs are likely to pass 7.1 LPCM, eg if already received from a connected ATV or console, than to decode to LPCM. I beIieve very few, if any, do the latter.
 
I recently swapped my old AVR for a Flex HTx.
I have it connected to the eARC of my LG 77C2 screen. An Apple4k TV is connected to a 'normal' HDMI input.
Setting it up so the A4TV is in PCM only with the LG passing it to the Flex HTx was simple.
Getting the CEC volume/mute commands from the A4TV was fiddly. I actually have no idea why it started working, it just did.

I am looking at getting a small USB streamer so I can listen to TIDAL or Airstream without needing the TV on.

I replaced my ancient Lexicon MC-4 with a Flex HT and use an AppleTV, LG 55 C4, eARC/PCM. Everything works (including AppleTV remote) and I am very happy. Make sure you get the right HDMI cables or you will only get 2 channels. It sounds great and is so configurable from a Mac laptop. I'll upgrade to Dirac at some point. Highly recommended for a minimal home theater system. I have a Slim box plugged into the optical to listen to my FLAC music collection as well.

I'd be curious what TVs other than LG would work in this configuration.

Why would you want an AVR? :)
 
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Has anyone tried using a windows PC as the source? For eg, something like

Code:
PC (with Dolby Access / Dolby Atmos for home theater selected in settings) --> Nvidia (HDMI) ---> TV --> eARC --> miniDSP

I am guessing this won't work since in this case it is no longer PCM being sent and miniDSP will not work, and one has to stick with an AVR or something else.

I have a similar setup but instead with TV ---> optical ---> logitech Z906 (which can decode Dolby digital). What I noticed was, the only way this setup worked was setting to bitstream input and passthrough on my LG TV audio/hdmi settings. If I switched it to PCM, then Dolby Atmos for Home theater would vanish from windows settings.


Screenshot 2025-01-07 210859.png
 
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