How do you hear headphone 'soundstage'

[tomtoo]

A life of crime will do that to you.

Maybe its that i was grown up over a police station? Who knows?

 

[wiggum]

Nice choice of music
3D one did not sound any more 3D than the original, if anything it sounded off tonality wise. Might be better not to name one of them 3D next time maybe. If I learned one thing being an audio geek that is people hear what they expect to hear mostly.

It is the sofalizer plugin in ffmpeg. The HRTF that I used is from Neumann KU 100 dummy head measured at Helsinki University of Technology.

If you have some sample(preferreably < 1min) where you hear soundstage, I could process it and upload.

 

[IAtaman]

It is the sofalizer plugin in ffmpeg. The HRTF that I used is from Neumann KU 100 dummy head measured at Helsinki University of Technology.

If you have some sample(preferreably < 1min) where you hear soundstage, I could process it and upload.

Oh nice. I have a track in mind, Strive from Amber Rubarth, it is 1:17 so almost <1min. should be easy to splice.

Before I do that, I have a question. What you said confused me a bit, maybe I am not fully getting this whole HRTF tuning thing. In my mind if the 3D sample is already "tuned" for an HRTF, we should be listening the sample with flat tuned headphones don't we? My headphones are EQ'ed to my taste, meaning they are already tuned to my HRTF more or less. Isn't adding another HRTF tuning on top of that would confuse things?

 

[Ilkless]

Oh nice. I have a track in mind, Strive from Amber Rubarth, it is 1:17 so almost <1min. should be easy to splice.

Before I do that, I have a question. What you said confused me a bit, maybe I am not fully getting this whole HRTF tuning thing. In my mind if the 3D sample is already "tuned" for an HRTF, we should be listening the sample with flat tuned headphones don't we? My headphones are EQ'ed to my taste, meaning they are already tuned to my HRTF more or less. Isn't adding another HRTF tuning on top of that would confuse things?

HRTF is not just a frequency response, but also interaural differences in timing, phase and SPL between each year. Dummy head binaural recordings exist to provide a plausible degree of interaural difference that is somewhat close to your head, as the FR bit of things can be quite readily equalised after

 

[dasdoing]

The HRTF that I used is from Neumann KU 100 dummy head measured at Helsinki University of Technology.

try these https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sing-this-crossfeed-setup.43152/#post-1527755

As mentioned, I recomend the one based on WDR Control Room 1

 

[wiggum]

Oh nice. I have a track in mind, Strive from Amber Rubarth, it is 1:17 so almost <1min. should be easy to splice.

I can't find Strive on Youtube. Could you attach Strive? I think copyright laws do allow small snippets to be shared.

Before I do that, I have a question. What you said confused me a bit, maybe I am not fully getting this whole HRTF tuning thing. In my mind if the 3D sample is already "tuned" for an HRTF, we should be listening the sample with flat tuned headphones don't we? My headphones are EQ'ed to my taste, meaning they are already tuned to my HRTF more or less. Isn't adding another HRTF tuning on top of that would confuse things?

That is a good question. AFAIK, the sofa files contains the only intra-aural time difference and volume of the sine sweep as it arrives at the pinna, so only one HRTF when you play back. I think they compensate for the HRTF of the dummy head.

 

[wiggum]

try these https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sing-this-crossfeed-setup.43152/#post-1527755

As mentioned, I recomend the one based on WDR Control Room 1

These don't seem to be in sofa format?

 

[IAtaman]

I can't find Strive on Youtube. Could you attach Strive? I think copyright laws do allow small snippets to be shared.

I was not able to find it on YouTube or SoundCloud. Not sure if this link works for you?

That is a good question. AFAIK, the sofa files contains the only intra-aural time difference and volume of the sine sweep as it arrives at the pinna, so only one HRTF when you play back. I think they compensate for the HRTF of the dummy head.

Interesting. Somehow it did not have any impact on localization of sound sources for me but tonality sounded weird. Thank you for the explanation.

 

[dasdoing]

These don't seem to be in sofa format?

why you need sofa?
the originals are https://audiogroup.web.th-koeln.de/wdr_irc.html
but they are uncorrected and therefore coloured as hell

 

[wiggum]

I was not able to find it on YouTube or SoundCloud. Not sure if this link works for you?

Interesting. Somehow it did not have any impact on localization of sound sources for me but tonality sounded weird. Thank you for the explanation.

I can't extract from Spotify due to DRM. I have attached another sample music that sounds great. To aid in blind testing, I have named them just A and B. Open the text after you listen.

 

[wiggum]

why you need sofa?
the originals are https://audiogroup.web.th-koeln.de/wdr_irc.html
but they are uncorrected and therefore coloured as hell

Well, the sofalizer plugin requires sofa files and I don't know how to use IR files. Besides, if they are uncorrected, it won't match how we would hear from a pair of speakers in a room?

 

[dasdoing]

I don't know how to use IR files.

there are EqualizerAPO configs provided

if they are uncorrected, it won't match how we would hear from a pair of speakers in a room?

it wont, but in my and others experience the pure IRs wont really beam you into the space they are recorded in. it's probably the visual ques lacking. we kind of expect a perfect room with headphones on. try out these corrected ones in order to at least have hte experience

 

[ROOSKIE]

I have yet to find headphones that don't sound like they are in my head.

 

[IAtaman]

I can't extract from Spotify due to DRM. I have attached another sample music that sounds great. To aid in blind testing, I have named them just A and B. Open the text after you listen.

This time tonality sounded a little less off compared to the previous one, and I could tell which one is the 3D version easily. I have to admit their spatial qualities were not much different though, the 3D one sounded like it was recorded in a bigger room but it still sounded like a recording and like like a binaural recording. Thank you for the experiments.

 

[majingotan]

Listening from my Dan Clark Aeon X Open without any DSP or EQ whatsoever, this recording is one of the best out of the head illusionary effect that I've ever heard. The illusion that I'm listening to a properly treated stereo channel room is impressive. There's also no hint of "hole in the soundstage" that are common in poorly mastered tracks. Binaural stuff is amazing!

 

[virtua]

None of the poll options really fit how I experience it. Overwhelmingly it's mostly varying degrees of width and the sensation of height, I don't really attribute a less forward frontal image with soundstage, more with FR since it doesn't really sound like 'soundstage' to me, it just sounds like an image that's either more forward or recessed depending on the headphone.

 

[iGude]

I have yet to find headphones that don't sound like they are in my head.

The externalization will not just magically happen with a specific pair of headphones, at least it requires binaural recordings or recordings rendered binaurally, too.

 

[Robbo99999]

The externalization will not just magically happen with a specific pair of headphones, at least it requires binaural recordings or recordings rendered binaurally, too.

Some people can still get varying degrees of externalisation with regular headphones and also whilst EQ'd to the Harman Curve without any special binaural recordings. There can be a few effects in some music tracks that have "baked in" externalisation which I've noticed when listening to these tracks on both speakers (2 channel) and headphones. There's a few tracks of mine with effects that actually feel like they're coming from behind you. In "Forgotten Love" by the artist "Aurora", about halfway through there's an effect where her voice breaks away from central and starts panning around left to right & also front to back - I've noticed this on speakers & also headphones. There's a few other tracks with similar extreme effects, but generally I find that headphone sound doesn't have to sound like it's all coming from within your head, even on more basic tracks.

 

[iGude]

In "Forgotten Love" by the artist "Aurora", about halfway through there's an effect where her voice breaks away from central and starts panning around left to right & also front to back - I've noticed this on speakers & also headphones.

Nice mix, your creation?
Please correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the effect that is used in this mix and that you are referring to some sort of binauralizer?

 

[iGude]

I find that headphone sound doesn't have to sound like it's all coming from within your head, even on more basic tracks.

Agree, but then it is just outside of your head, i.e. unnaturally close. At least it is not remotely the kind of externalization that you can get with binaural or binauralized recordings.