Home Theatre Bypass Options

[joffpiste]

Currently, I'm using an Anthem MRX300 receiver as a preamp, outputting to some Marantz MA500 monoblock amps. I use this for both movies and music, but it really isn't cutting it for music. I've now read enough threads & tests on this site that agree with what I'm hearing - that most AVRs are basically doing bad things.

My plan is to separate AV from music, but to do that I need a preamp with HT bypass. I've researched a ton, but most are quite expensive. Perhaps a good quality preamp is still expensive? And without a test like ASR's, how do I even know if I'm getting something good? Some NAD devices seem reasonably priced, but Amir's recent NAD tests indicate some fundamental design issues that are significant enough to not trust them as a whole.

Has anyone found a good solution for this? I can buy a DAC with volume control to cover the music side, but haven't found any with an analog pass through. I presume this is because they all operate the volume in the digital domain, so the analog would have to pass through an ADC first.

 

[RayDunzl]

I can buy a DAC with volume control to cover the music side, but haven't found any with an analog pass through.

As mentioned, I think, in another thread recently, the Benchmark DAC3 HGC doesn't digitize the analog inputs.

"Analog inputs are never converted to digital, and digital inputs never pass through an analog potentiometer."

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0321/7609/files/DAC3_Series_Manual_Rev_D.pdf?85

And without a test like ASR's, how do I even know if I'm getting something good?

The manual contains AP measurements (same tool as used here by Amirm).

Basically, the second third of the manual is measurements, with specs at the end, Keep scrolling if you looked.

 

[MarcT]

Currently, I'm using an Anthem MRX300 receiver as a preamp, outputting to some Marantz MA500 monoblock amps. I use this for both movies and music, but it really isn't cutting it for music. I've now read enough threads & tests on this site that agree with what I'm hearing - that most AVRs are basically doing bad things.

My plan is to separate AV from music, but to do that I need a preamp with HT bypass. I've researched a ton, but most are quite expensive. Perhaps a good quality preamp is still expensive? And without a test like ASR's, how do I even know if I'm getting something good? Some NAD devices seem reasonably priced, but Amir's recent NAD tests indicate some fundamental design issues that are significant enough to not trust them as a whole.

Has anyone found a good solution for this? I can buy a DAC with volume control to cover the music side, but haven't found any with an analog pass through. I presume this is because they all operate the volume in the digital domain, so the analog would have to pass through an ADC first.

Great question, as I have a family room system that must work for music, as well as movies. So, like you, I looked for a pre-amp with HT bypass. This was before I knew about this site or much of anything about DACs. I ended up getting a PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/pre-amp, which has HT bypass.

Unfortunately, I subsequently found out about the review here of this unit, and it doesn't look good. I did start a thread here and ask for alternatives and the most interesting one and which I'll be possibly picking up is the Benchmark DAC3L. I'm told that, although it is not a pre-amp, it can drive a power amp just fine, which is all I really need it to do. I will use only the HT bypass input, a coaxial input for my CD player, and the USB input for music from my laptop.

 

[joffpiste]

Hmmm...that's 2 votes for Benchmark DAC3. Certainly looks interesting and seems to be of high quality (am I allowed to say that I find it super ugly though?). I love their concept of the hybrid volume control that works in either analog or digital domain.

But now we're into the CAD$2500-3000 range, which is 10x the price of something like the Topping DACs, just to add a single analog bypass. There surely has to be another way. What about a simple line-level switch? Would a generic one be audibly transparent, or are we back to hyper expensive options? I'm thinking of trying this out because it's the only one I found with IR remote: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07CB83W4K/

For traditional pre-amp with HT bypass, my research has found these so far. (All $$ in CAD MSRP from looking on the web). I may be using the term preamp a bit liberally, as I'm using it to mean volume control and source switching.

All in 1 (streamer-DAC-preamp-amp)
Naim Unity series, starts at $3900 for the Atom. They are quite beautiful and work well from a user experience perspective.
Sim Audio Neo Ace, $4200
NAD M10 $3500 (not actually sure if it has HT bypass)

Integrated Amp with DAC
Hegel H90 $2200 (and other Hegels more expensive)
NAD C368 & C388, starts at $1250 and can add BluOS streaming for ~$500
Sim Audio 240i - same as Neo above but without the streaming module $2900

Analog only integrated amp
Cambridge Audio Azur 851A $2000

Streamer-DAC-preamp
NAD C658 $2000 with Dirac live

Some of these digitize their analog inputs and some don't. Hard to know for sure as the manufacturers don't seem to want to talk about it, so it may be hearsay. In any case, other than the NADs (which really aren't measuring well here), the price goes up pretty quick, but even more importantly - none of them have been tested here. I'd love to see the measurements on the Naim Unity and the Sim Audio, but it seems unlikely that @amirm can get his hands on these?

Other amps I looked at didn't have the HT bypass until you got to very expensive models (I'm looking at you Rega), and even Cambridge doesn't include it in their CX series. I'm sure there are more out there, but that's where I'm at so far. I'll add the Benchmark to my list.

Still an open question for anyone else to weigh in. I'm sure we're not the only ones trying to combine movies & music on 2 systems.

 

[RayDunzl]

But now we're into the CAD$2500-3000 range

So put in a switch.

 

[vavan]

I'm using parasound hint which is kind of swiss knife with all its features

 

[audiophile]

My plan is to separate AV from music, but to do that I need a preamp with HT bypass. I've researched a ton, but most are quite expensive.

I use Rogue Audio RP-1. it's a modern tubed preamp with a clever HT bypass mode. MSRP $1695

 

[LTig]

Currently, I'm using an Anthem MRX300 receiver as a preamp, outputting to some Marantz MA500 monoblock amps. I use this for both movies and music, but it really isn't cutting it for music. I've now read enough threads & tests on this site that agree with what I'm hearing - that most AVRs are basically doing bad things.

My plan is to separate AV from music, but to do that I need a preamp with HT bypass.

You could get any (DAC-)preamp you like and use a switch box to switch the outputs of either this preamp or the main channel preouts of the AVR to the power amp. For XLR you could use the Nobsound ONE Little Bear MC103-Pro. Attention: this one has 3 inputs and one output, but there is also a version with 1 input and 3 outputs with the same name!

I have both of them (one feeds the analog input of my RME ADI-2 PRO fs, the other splits its analog output) and they work fine.

 

[LTig]

I use Rogue Audio RP-1. it's a modern tubed preamp with a clever HT bypass mode. MSRP $1695

Looking at these measurements I would rather stay clear of this one (well, of tube equipment in general) if audible transparency is the target.

 

[rvsixer]

Sorry, just saw this thread, forgive my lateness chiming in. I had the same situation, movies were fine, but music just sounded "off".

Settled on an Emotiva XSP-1 preamp (new price $1249, I bought one mint used for half that). I had no idea what I was missing through the AVR. The XSP-1 measures and sounds great; has HT bypass, subwoofer support, inputs and outputs have both buffered RCA and XLR connections (so you can easily use your balanced gear (in my case amps and USB music DAC) and consumer gear (AVR) together without issue).

Recommended.

 

[Sparky]

Is it possible to successfully integrate a better Pre-amp with an AVR?
I am 2 channel plus sub only so....

For example, I need an AVR to decode all the Dolby formats plus double up as an HDMI switching device.
The marantz NR1200 will serve that purpose and it's cheap too. The NR1200 will convert the Dolby formats to 2 channel (as it's a 2 channel AVR).
I intend to use an Anthem STR Pre-amp for its superior SNR, better DAC and clean frequency response but also, it uses Anthem ARC which is very capable room correction software.

How would I hook these two up?

I will be using Apollon Purifi monoblocks for power.

 

[rvsixer]

@Sparky...your questions have already been answered in this thread. To recap, if you have a preamp with HT bypass, use it. If you have a preamp without HT bypass, use a line level switcher before your amps.

 

[BeepPeep_61]

This is the scheme that I use in my system using a Nobsound ONE Little Bear XLR switch to separate the purely musical listening through a MiniDSP SHD Dac equipped with digital volume adjustment that drives a pair of McIntosh MC601 mono amplifiers.
The perceived quality compared to the front audio outputs of the MARANTZ AV8805 is much better and easily noticeable, therefore I strongly recommend the use of this type of switching.

 

[andreasmaaan]

@joffpiste this thread may be of use to you.

Hard to imagine much could go wrong with this or this, for example.

 

[Sparky]

@Sparky...your questions have already been answered in this thread. To recap, if you have a preamp with HT bypass, use it. If you have a preamp without HT bypass, use a line level switcher before your amps.

Sorry bud. I got lazy and didn't read the entire thing....

 

[Sparky]

This is the scheme that I use in my system using a Nobsound ONE Little Bear XLR switch to separate the purely musical listening through a MiniDSP SHD Dac equipped with digital volume adjustment that drives a pair of McIntosh MC601 mono amplifiers.
The perceived quality compared to the front audio outputs of the MARANTZ AV8805 is much better and easily noticeable, therefore I strongly recommend the use of this type of switching. View attachment 49941View attachment 49942View attachment 49943

I am completely blown away by this! I love it!

I'm struggling to see how I would make a ton of components work and you've just nailed it! Well done! ️

 

[rvsixer]

Sorry bud. I got lazy and didn't read the entire thing....

All ten messages .

 

[Sparky]

All ten messages .

.

Must try harder......

 

[Worth Davis]

I have used a nice switch to reassign speakers to systems. I fully separated my systems for now, but the switch worked great and didnt muddy things up. At one point I have 6 subwoofers shared and 9 speakers on two AB switches. The it was just the subs, now they are fully separated. Amrim review one, just get it and AB the speakers between 2 channel and HT.

 

[TonioRoffo]

This is the scheme that I use in my system using a Nobsound ONE Little Bear XLR switch to separate the purely musical listening through a MiniDSP SHD Dac equipped with digital volume adjustment that drives a pair of McIntosh MC601 mono amplifiers.
The perceived quality compared to the front audio outputs of the MARANTZ AV8805 is much better and easily noticeable, therefore I strongly recommend the use of this type of switching. View attachment 49941View attachment 49942View attachment 49943

Exactly, this is how you do the best of both worlds. You can go one step higher and make that switch with HQ relays triggered by 12V so your HT bypass becomes automatic.