Home Theatre Bypass Options

[eduardw]

Exactly, this is how you do the best of both worlds. You can go one step higher and make that switch with HQ relays triggered by 12V so your HT bypass becomes automatic.

I would love to see some kind of remote controlled xlr and rca selector switch of high quality for under $125 or even triggered by a smartplug.

 

[Sg86]

This is the scheme that I use in my system using a Nobsound ONE Little Bear XLR switch to separate the purely musical listening through a MiniDSP SHD Dac equipped with digital volume adjustment that drives a pair of McIntosh MC601 mono amplifiers.
The perceived quality compared to the front audio outputs of the MARANTZ AV8805 is much better and easily noticeable, therefore I strongly recommend the use of this type of switching. View attachment 49941View attachment 49942View attachment 49943

I dont understand how this works because the Audio 4 on the yamaha is an input?

I was going to get the cxa5200 and assumed its internals would be more than good enough to output 2CH with the Audio 4 being a DAC input.

Now I am totally confused.

How does the yamaha output HT fronts through the Audio 4 input here?

 

[BeepPeep_61]

Good Sunday Sg86,
I start by specifying that my AVR is a MARANTZ AV8005, and that it drives:
1) through the Nobsound ONE Little Bear XLR switch (when set in Home Theater position), the pair of McIntosh MC601 mono amplifiers connected to the front speakers (B&W 802D2)
2) directly from its XLR outputs, the inputs of the YAMAHA MA-X5200 power amp as regards all the other ambience channels (center-surround-surround back-height1 and 3, while height2 is not yet installed) As already mentioned, (and measured by Amirm), the quality of the outputs of the MiniDSP are much better than those of the AV8005, so I have structured my system so that, when I want to listen to music only, I switch the selector of the NOBSOUND switch to that the output signal of the MiniDSP DAC (which has its own adjustable digital volume) arrives directly at the inputs of the MC601 (DAC position).
If, on the other hand, I want to listen to the soundtrack of a film, after having obviously turned on the MA-X5200 power amp, by switching the switch to the HT position, the front outputs of the AV8005 (marked in yellow in my diagram) will send the signals of the front channels to the MC601 .
To the third input of the switch, I also connected the XLR outputs of my ACCUPHASE DP65V cd player which has an autonomous volume adjustment, always with a view to higher audio quality.
I understand it can be a bit convoluted, but when listening to mostly stereo music, switching is rarely done. There are switches that make the selection through relays driven by the 12V trigger signal available on any AVR and this could be a solution to streamline the procedure. I hope I was comprehensive, but if you have other questions ... ask!

 

[Sg86]

Good Sunday Sg86,
I start by specifying that my AVR is a MARANTZ AV8005, and that it drives:
1) through the Nobsound ONE Little Bear XLR switch (when set in Home Theater position), the pair of McIntosh MC601 mono amplifiers connected to the front speakers (B&W 802D2)
2) directly from its XLR outputs, the inputs of the YAMAHA MA-X5200 power amp as regards all the other ambience channels (center-surround-surround back-height1 and 3, while height2 is not yet installed) As already mentioned, (and measured by Amirm), the quality of the outputs of the MiniDSP are much better than those of the AV8005, so I have structured my system so that, when I want to listen to music only, I switch the selector of the NOBSOUND switch to that the output signal of the MiniDSP DAC (which has its own adjustable digital volume) arrives directly at the inputs of the MC601 (DAC position).
If, on the other hand, I want to listen to the soundtrack of a film, after having obviously turned on the MA-X5200 power amp, by switching the switch to the HT position, the front outputs of the AV8005 (marked in yellow in my diagram) will send the signals of the front channels to the MC601 .
To the third input of the switch, I also connected the XLR outputs of my ACCUPHASE DP65V cd player which has an autonomous volume adjustment, always with a view to higher audio quality.
I understand it can be a bit convoluted, but when listening to mostly stereo music, switching is rarely done. There are switches that make the selection through relays driven by the 12V trigger signal available on any AVR and this could be a solution to streamline the procedure. I hope I was comprehensive, but if you have other questions ... ask!

Hi!

Yes I thought the AVR was the Yamaha CX-A5200 and those bottom left XLR are for audio in which is what confused me!

I now see that you are just bypassing the AVR completely when you want to listen to audio through your DAC.

I have KEF R7s and I need to decide now if I should go for a custom 5 channel purifi amp or 2 and 3 channel seperates which I would need I believe ifni went with the front switching method you suggest?

Does the Yamaha I'm looking at not bypass everything for the Audio 4 XLR input as I thought? I kind of assumed this was the point of these high end pre pros and dont want to add another device that could make things worse.

Here was my planned route:

Roon Bridge (ROCK) on Intel NUC > USB to SMSL M400 DAC > XLR to Yamaha cx-a5200 Audio 4 input > XLR out to Apollon Purifi Amp

 

[rvsixer]

....and dont want to add another device that could make things worse.
Here was my planned route:
Roon Bridge (ROCK) on Intel NUC > USB to SMSL M400 DAC > XLR to Yamaha cx-a5200 Audio 4 input > XLR out to Apollon Purifi Amp

Not bypassing anything here, in fact adding an extra/unnecessary DAC and ADC conversion (IMO it would just be better to feed the Yamaha digital from the Intel NUC). For actual HT bypass to a music only system, you need to bypass the Yamaha.
Maybe yet another diagram helps lol:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dsp-shd-dac-dsp-and-streamer.4286/post-365964

 

[Bear123]

Hmmm...that's 2 votes for Benchmark DAC3. Certainly looks interesting and seems to be of high quality (am I allowed to say that I find it super ugly though?). I love their concept of the hybrid volume control that works in either analog or digital domain.

But now we're into the CAD$2500-3000 range, which is 10x the price of something like the Topping DACs, just to add a single analog bypass. There surely has to be another way. What about a simple line-level switch? Would a generic one be audibly transparent, or are we back to hyper expensive options? I'm thinking of trying this out because it's the only one I found with IR remote: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07CB83W4K/

For traditional pre-amp with HT bypass, my research has found these so far. (All $$ in CAD MSRP from looking on the web). I may be using the term preamp a bit liberally, as I'm using it to mean volume control and source switching.

All in 1 (streamer-DAC-preamp-amp)
Naim Unity series, starts at $3900 for the Atom. They are quite beautiful and work well from a user experience perspective.
Sim Audio Neo Ace, $4200
NAD M10 $3500 (not actually sure if it has HT bypass)

Integrated Amp with DAC
Hegel H90 $2200 (and other Hegels more expensive)
NAD C368 & C388, starts at $1250 and can add BluOS streaming for ~$500
Sim Audio 240i - same as Neo above but without the streaming module $2900

Analog only integrated amp
Cambridge Audio Azur 851A $2000

Streamer-DAC-preamp
NAD C658 $2000 with Dirac live

Some of these digitize their analog inputs and some don't. Hard to know for sure as the manufacturers don't seem to want to talk about it, so it may be hearsay. In any case, other than the NADs (which really aren't measuring well here), the price goes up pretty quick, but even more importantly - none of them have been tested here. I'd love to see the measurements on the Naim Unity and the Sim Audio, but it seems unlikely that @amirm can get his hands on these?

Other amps I looked at didn't have the HT bypass until you got to very expensive models (I'm looking at you Rega), and even Cambridge doesn't include it in their CX series. I'm sure there are more out there, but that's where I'm at so far. I'll add the Benchmark to my list.

Still an open question for anyone else to weigh in. I'm sure we're not the only ones trying to combine movies & music on 2 systems.

I'm still having trouble understanding why there is so much concern to try to "bypass" all the high fidelity functionality of a good AVR in order to downgrade to 2.0 channel for music. With the prices being discussed above, why not just use a Denon X3600/X3700, using its internal amps and DAC's for a sonically transparent signal with .004% SINAD being sent to the speakers?? This keeps bass management, dual subwoofer integration and eq, and speaker eq below Schroeder in play. All of which have a drastic affect on sound quality, unlike going from .007% SINAD to .001% or whatever, which will make zero audible difference. If someone REALLY wants to chase numbers on a chart that don't actually affect the sound, then sure, bypass the internal amps to get a higher SINAD and use a high SINAD amp. If you need more power than the Denon's internal amps can provide, this actually might matter.

I know that there are complex and convoluted methods for restoring basic high fidelity functionality i.e. bass management, eq etc. I just don't see the point, audibly. If in fact, improved sound quality is what we are after.

I would actually be very interested in doing blind, level matched A/B testing of something like a Denon AVR using its internal amps/DAC's in a high fidelity system(good speakers, good, well placed subs with proper eq on everything). A/B switching from Denon to a SOTA DAC and amp such as Benchmark, while keeping the configuration identical i.e. crossover, subs, eq. I am of the opinion that no one would be able to reliably tell the difference. But it would be interesting to know for sure. I suppose an easier method might be to simply use two full range speakers with no room correction applied and see if anyone can reliably tell the difference. I suspect not. But I'm sure A/B'ing from that to a proper SOTA setup with dual subs and eq would be easily and drastically noticeable/preferred.

 

[rvsixer]

...all the high fidelity functionality of a good AVR

Do agree with your post overall, yet see the "concern" for HT bypass underscored at the same time. As measured here, there are very very few good AVR's out there with even decent, much less high fidelity out there; hence the concern for bypassing them for music.

In my own case, my higher end Yamaha AVR sounds terrible with music (and yes it is properly setup with multisubs and bass management and EQ and countless hours with REW in hand). So I began the quest for better sounding music, which led to an HT bypass music solution with all the bass management, multisub integration, and EQ goodness implemented. Sounds so much better (I can real time switch my level matched digital music audio source between the two).

Next step for me will be one of the Denon AVR's which allow turning off the internal right/left amps, and hopefully its music audio fidelity is good enough for me to get rid of the music only side of the system. For me the fewer the boxes the better I try to do all things KISS, but only if the music does not suffer.

 

[Rajeev Kale]

This is the scheme that I use in my system using a Nobsound ONE Little Bear XLR switch to separate the purely musical listening through a MiniDSP SHD Dac equipped with digital volume adjustment that drives a pair of McIntosh MC601 mono amplifiers.
The perceived quality compared to the front audio outputs of the MARANTZ AV8805 is much better and easily noticeable, therefore I strongly recommend the use of this type of switching. View attachment 49941View attachment 49942View attachment 49943

hello good evening and greeting from India

Need your advise to figure out configuration of my system

I have Denon AVR 7200 WA for my Home Theatre
I have Audiocontrol Avlon G4 Power Amp
Cambridge Audio CXN V2 Music streamer
PMC twenty25 23 Tower speakers


I wan to use the PMC tower speakers for both Home theatre and Two Channel Audio

The speakers will be driven by Audiocontrol Avlon G 4 power Amplifier

Please advise best possible solution

regards

Rajeev

 

[Steve Dallas]

snip...
I would actually be very interested in doing blind, level matched A/B testing of something like a Denon AVR using its internal amps/DAC's in a high fidelity system(good speakers, good, well placed subs with proper eq on everything). A/B switching from Denon to a SOTA DAC and amp such as Benchmark, while keeping the configuration identical i.e. crossover, subs, eq. I am of the opinion that no one would be able to reliably tell the difference. But it would be interesting to know for sure. I suppose an easier method might be to simply use two full range speakers with no room correction applied and see if anyone can reliably tell the difference. I suspect not. But I'm sure A/B'ing from that to a proper SOTA setup with dual subs and eq would be easily and drastically noticeable/preferred.

I was just pondering this yesterday, and concluded I would NOT be able to hear a difference in fidelity, but I would be able to hear the difference between Dirac and Audyssey every time in the FR domain, and I would obviously be able to hear the subs with the AVR. The only way to test it properly would be with the AVR in direct mode, and Dirac turned off on my laptop. I already know I would fail that blind test, so I don't need to do it.

I use an external amp to drive my front pair. Part of the reason is the goose the SINAD of my Denon 4700 receiver by turning off the front pair amps or all amps. Whether I can hear the difference is very debatable, and I am willing to admit that I cannot. The other reason is that my integrated amp is good for probably 275W at .001 THD, and I am a believer in having a lot of power--especially with DRC.

I can't really help the OP, though, because I operate in the unbalanced domain.

Here is a very quick and dirty diagram of my audio paths:

 

[Grumpy PigBear]

This website lists hundreds of Amps and Preamps that have "Home Theatre Bypass'.

http://audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-processor-input

 

[rvsixer]

Next step for me will be one of the Denon AVR's which allow turning off the internal right/left amps, and hopefully its music audio fidelity is good enough for me to get rid of the music only side of the system. For me the fewer the boxes the better I try to do all things KISS, but only if the music does not suffer.

Well since this thread is back from the dead, I thought I would update on the above, as my new HT/listening room is basically complete (is it ever really complete lol?).

Denon X4800H, smallish room 5.4.4 speaker config, somewhat narrow but constant directivity speakers. Room is treated (my first experience with a "fully" treated room), all subs aligned to each other and then to the mains, system EQ'ed for peaks only and only up to 250Hz. Measurements are good/excellent (FR, RT60M, ETC, clarity, etc.), HT is great, music is great imo (never had bass or kick drums sound so realistic, no more one note or hanging notes). Have strategically placed 2D/3D diffusion, no more surround "hot spots", sound moves fluidly between all speakers. I just enjoy listening to this system, former setups it was more like picking apart what's wrong all the time.

At this time I feel no need to implement the "music" side of things, as the above setup far outranks any previous "music" setup. Pick the right speakers, pick the right MLP, pick the right speaker locations, physically treat the room for its particular shortcomings, dial in the EQ, and really get the low end right (this is the game changer for me personally). FWIW,YMMV, etc.

No system is perfect, but imo picking the right compromises for your particular needs/ears/budget works too.

 

[Schollaudio]

My HT preamp has a "Direct" mode" that sounds much better for music. That routes the signal around the DSP.