high level subwoofer connection vs. rca

[hawk01]

hello all,

there has been a mixed bag of information as to the merits of having a high level subwoofer connection as recommended by REL versus the typical low level rca connection similar to the LFE channel of most AVRs and pre-outs or sub-outs of some integrated amplifiers.

@amirm has been particular about using low level. i would like to get a more thorough explanation on the whys and hows behind the merits of using low level against high level in order to clear the brewing cloud of confusion.

everyone’s insight hopefully @amirm would be most appreciated!

cheers!

 

[March Audio]

Hi level will have more noise and distortion. Its going through an additional and unnecessary amplification stage. REL are absolutely wrong on this one.

If you are using an AVR it will also filter the low frequencies (typically @80Hz) and send them to the sub. Your mains will have less distortion not having to play those lowest frequencies.

 

[Chrispy]

Rel is just strange. I wouldn't ever buy one of their subs let alone their connection recommendations. A shame, really.

 

[hawk01]

Hi level will have more noise and distortion. Its going through an additional and unnecessary amplification stage. REL are absolutely wrong on this one.

If you are using an AVR it will also filter the low frequencies (typically @80Hz) and send them to the sub. Your mains will have less distortion not having to play those lowest frequencies.

hmm, so it appears my humble yamaha avr is doing a better job at delivering quality bass compared to the REL?
here’s my dilemma, i have a marantz integrated which should be better at doing 2ch stereo but it does not have a sub-out or pre-out. by the looks of it i may be doomed to go the high level path in order to connect with my dual svs sb1000 which fortunately has both high level and rca connections.

 

[Chrispy]

hmm, so it appears my humble yamaha avr is doing a better job at delivering quality bass compared to the REL?
here’s my dilemma, i have a marantz integrated which should be better at doing 2ch stereo but it does not have a sub-out or pre-out. by the looks of it i may be doomed to go the high level path in order to connect with my dual svs sb1000 which fortunately has both high level and rca connections.

Your typical avr has superior bass management, most integrated amps have primitive 2ch tech. Some subs can handle a stereo input and even provide a high pass for your speakers but most subs merely have a low pass filter labeled "crossover".

I'd stick to line level inputs when possible, particularly with bass management before that point.

 

[hawk01]

although in fairness to my humble yamaha avr it does a wonderful job of integrating the mains with the dual subs for 2ch stereo listening. whatever shortcomings and potential poor measurements it may have due to the cocktail of noise brewing inside is not audible for me to discern...

 

[Chrispy]

although in fairness to my humble yamaha avr it does a wonderful job of integrating the mains with the dual subs for 2ch stereo listening. whatever shortcomings and potential poor measurements it may have due to the cocktail of noise brewing inside is not audible for me to discern...

Noise brewing inside?

 

[hawk01]

Noise brewing inside?

not audible noise. guess i am just being too prejudice in using my yamaha avr for stereo use due to its cluttered nature of too many things inside like dsp, etc. unlike my marantz integrated which is a purely analog amplifier. sounds really great compared to the yamaha even when its in direct mode. it only fell short not having any form of bass management.

 

[hawk01]

Your typical avr has superior bass management, most integrated amps have primitive 2ch tech. Some subs can handle a stereo input and even provide a high pass for your speakers but most subs merely have a low pass filter labeled "crossover".

I'd stick to line level inputs when possible, particularly with bass management before that point.

your inputs above are a significant wealth of affirmation! i tried hooking the svs sb1000 speaker level to the marantz integrated. there is bass but i just hear something is so amiss with everything. on the other hand, the sub out from yamaha avr crossed at 80hz sounds properly integrated, very cohesive.

 

[hawk01]

a follow up to all this: will i get equal or better performance with an avr bass management using an integrated amplifier with subwoofer or pre-outs? of course after tweaking the gain and crossover settings...

 

[Chrispy]

your inputs above are a significant wealth of affirmation! i tried hooking the svs sb1000 speaker level to the marantz integrated. there is bass but i just hear something is so amiss with everything. on the other hand, the sub out from yamaha avr crossed at 80hz sounds properly integrated, very cohesive.

Difference in better bass management, which the Marantz integrated likely has none of....

 

[Chrispy]

not audible noise. guess i am just being too prejudice in using my yamaha avr for stereo use due to its cluttered nature of too many things inside like dsp, etc. unlike my marantz integrated which is a purely analog amplifier. sounds really great compared to the yamaha even when its in direct mode. it only fell short not having any form of bass management.

This sounds like the idiocy resulting from most audio magazines/blogs....

 

[hawk01]

This sounds like the idiocy resulting from most audio magazines/blogs....

ah yes and i the unwitting victim of said idiocy which i bit hook, line and sinker! if not for the more informed folks here i would still be diving deep into the rabbit hole of false information.

 

[Chrispy]

ah yes and i the unwitting victim of said idiocy which i bit hook, line and sinker! if not for the more informed folks here i would still be diving deep into the rabbit hole of false information.

This and a relatively few other places are the way to go......but then again measurements aren't going to dictate preferences....

 

[hawk01]

on the other hand, will an integrated amplifier equipped with proper sub-outs or pre-outs perform well like an avr’s bass management after tweaking the crossover, gain settings etc?

 

[Chrispy]

on the other hand, will an integrated amplifier equipped with proper sub-outs or pre-outs perform well like an avr’s bass management after tweaking the crossover, gain settings etc?

What do you mean by "proper sub outs or pre-outs"? You don't seem to understand the circumstances generally....

 

[hawk01]

This and a relatively few other places are the way to go......but then again measurements aren't going to dictate preferences....

to that i took a leap of faith! bought myself the elac dbr62 solely based on its merits here in ASR. and voila! it is really an amazing speaker! you only realize what you do not hear unless you listen to something that tells you otherwise! not to bad mouth the fullrange drivers i have, i suddenly discover their faults and shortcomings as a speaker when the elacs began singing in my dedicated listening room.

 

[hawk01]

What do you mean by "proper sub outs or pre-outs"? You don't seem to understand the circumstances generally....

integrated amplifiers with a subwoofer out rca connection. like the yamaha as701, nad326bee, and the like.

 

[Chrispy]

integrated amplifiers with a subwoofer out rca connection. like the yamaha as701, nad326bee, and the like.

IMO sub preouts with full range signal or other useless bass management in the integrated amp....meh

 

[Chrispy]

integrated amplifiers with a subwoofer out rca connection. like the yamaha as701, nad326bee, and the like.

So please demonstrate the abilities of these particular units in equivalent terms......thanks in advance.