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HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
bidn
Active Member
Yes this is true, but HFM replaced them free of charge when in warranty. Other manufacturers have lot of questions and hesitating to replace something. But yeahyou have prepaid that service in initial price...
I don't know much about services by other manufacturers for a nice reason:
I own many headphones and in-ears from many other manufacturers, and except for the Audeze LCD-i4 in-ear I have never had something defective from these other manufacturers (my Audeze i4 had a defective driver right from the beginning, there was no trouble in getting a replacement through my dealer).
Re. the falling apart of the ear-pads of my Hifiman headphones, it happened after the warranty. I think I could still have tried to get replacements for free because I used to be a good client for my dealer and because the ear-pads are so low quality that they must cost Hifiman about nothing. Yet I avoided to go that way and chose instead to buy expensive Dekoni ear-pads with genuine leather, as I am not interested in further low quality Hifiman ear-pads which might self-destruct again within 2 years...
(I however might have to contact my dealer for getting replacements ear-pads for my Arya v1 if Dekoni still does not provide a substitute (issue re. the integrated mesh for protecting the drivers from dust) for the Arya v1.)
And the problem with aftermarket earpads is that they change the frequency response, so you either have to measure the difference or be able to find measurements on the internet where such pads have been measured (Oratory sometimes measures headphones with different pads for instance).
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Yep, and I agree. It will allow the Susvara to play 3dB louder. This also means higher distortion in a range it should not be used in.
I can see the HE-adapter to be beneficial with some class-D (the ones with load dependency) and some tube amps. They will 'see' a nice 8 ohm load.
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Is it correct to assume that headphones—Susvara in that case—are “pure” resistive loads? Not necessarily “flat” (real) impedance, but with minimal/no capacitive or inductive component?
I’m trying to understand whether something like the HE-adapter is always a possible option to use for a headphones connected to a load-dependent Class-D amp…
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
Yep, as resistive as it gets for a planar.
I would not use the hifiman adapter with just any headphone. You can use it with low sensitivity headphones (95dB/V or lower) that are at least 50ohm in impedance.
The reason for that lower impedance limit is to ensure you do not fry the 25ohm resistors.
Some amplifiers can peak in the upper frequency range when they see a high impedance load.
Some tube amps don't like to see a high load impedance.
bidn
Active Member
Indeed, you are quite right.
Dekoni provides measurements on their site for their pads with the FR curve of the original earpads on the same graph : there are some differences, but not much, and in any case the FR by Hifiman have some issues, the worse for me being the recession in the presence area, weakening the voices.
Here for example the measurement graphs comparing the Dekoni hybrid pad to the stock Susvara pad:
Not much difference there, looks like they've really tried to mimic the original pads very accurately.Indeed, you are quite right.
Dekoni provides measurements on their site for their pads with the FR curve of the original earpads on the same graph : there are some differences, but not much, and in any case the FR by Hifiman have some issues, the worse for me being the recession in the presence area, weakening the voices.
Here for example the measurement graphs comparing the Dekoni hybrid pad to the stock Susvara pad:
Buckchester
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I think there is an important point that is in the research which some on here should reexamine. That is, subjective listening is an extremely unreliable way to say you prefer one headphone or speaker over another, unless it's done in a specific way (e.g. Level-matched, blind, very quick switching back and forth, compared to a reference). Harman did this testing with a single headphone to reduce bias. As Amir has said, this can be done with a high degree of accuracy.
So for all those who say they like the Susvara, consider how you have conducted your listening comparisons. You should all take them with a grain of salt unless you did it in a similar specific way.
The research says most people prefer a headphone that sounds closest to a good speaker in a good room. The target that Amir uses is the best approximation we have for this to date. If some me says they prefer a headphone that deviates from this reference in a big way, like the Susvara, I think the simplest explanation for this is that person has not conducted a proper listening comparison.
Unless you've bought the Susvara, in which case you may have an emotional bias in justifying that purchase, it's difficult to reconcile how someone would continue to stick up for this significantly over-priced headphone after the results of this review. It just further reinforces how marketing and misinformation continue to play a significant role in high end audio.
So for all those who say they like the Susvara, consider how you have conducted your listening comparisons. You should all take them with a grain of salt unless you did it in a similar specific way.
The research says most people prefer a headphone that sounds closest to a good speaker in a good room. The target that Amir uses is the best approximation we have for this to date. If some me says they prefer a headphone that deviates from this reference in a big way, like the Susvara, I think the simplest explanation for this is that person has not conducted a proper listening comparison.
Unless you've bought the Susvara, in which case you may have an emotional bias in justifying that purchase, it's difficult to reconcile how someone would continue to stick up for this significantly over-priced headphone after the results of this review. It just further reinforces how marketing and misinformation continue to play a significant role in high end audio.
Great find!I think, for this one in particular, we need a TotalDac and an amp in the same league.
But, I have a question to @solderdude this is not in par with your review :
Susvara
back to HIFIMAN back to measurements home published: Oct-29-2017 NO SMOOTHING is applied to the shown plots. Most measurement sites have some smoothing applied which ‘irons flat’ sharp peaks and ‘w…diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com
I am lost.
My regrets. Not sure when your most recent purchase was, but my experience of QC for Hifiman for products purchased in the past couple of years has been flawless—I own and/or have gifted the HE1000se, HE1000 Stealth, Ananda Nano, Edition XS, Arya Organic and Stealth, and haven’t had a one of them be anything less than flawless; the Susvara and HE1000V2 I auditioned through Amazon’s generous return policy were equally seamless in build. I’ve had the Edition XS and HE1000se for almost two years, and they’ve both held up to near-daily listening, and for the former, an extensive amount of knocking around via travel.I agree with you that the price of the Susvara is a rip-off. And the more so when taking into account its very poor manufacturing quality. I remember that, when I was following the Susvara thread on Head-Fi years ago, I read about several persons reporting that the earpads of their Susvara had already fallen apart within 6 months after purchasing them! This combined with the crazy price protected me from wasting my money on these headphones.
I am sorry, but, in view of their very poor material quality, I fear that even the other Hifiman models are also overpriced.
I purchased and own five Hifiman headphones, from the cheap Sundara to the more expensive Shangri La Jr (€ 4500) , and for four out of these five models the earpads fell apart within two years.
I provide more details and a few photographs about this unacceptable Hifiman quality issue in the following post of the Ananda Stealth thread:
Hifiman Ananda Stealth V2 Headphone Review
Guess nobody will confuse these with the Dan Clark Stealth, will they... why would they? They are 10x the price. Silly comparison if they did. Apples and bananas
I’m well-aware of HFM’s prior reputation for build issues, but either they’ve made considerable improvements to this in recent years (at least for the price points I’ve sought out), or I’ve been extremely lucky. Nonetheless, I can say that HFM’s customer service has been nothing short of extraordinary; their international online store is integrated with their Amazon storefront, and they have a no-questions-asked policy for returns or replacements.
They’re also one of the only manufacturers I’ve encountered who will offer you a trade up from any model to another at higher price for only the cost of shipping your old unit to them and a fraction of the price difference. I sent them my Arya Stealth, which I paid $1,299 for at the time, for the HE1000 Stealth when it was first released and prices at $1,999 at the time; they charged me $500, which was $200 less than list price. More recently I sent them an Ananda Stealth that I bought for $599, and for $500 they shipped me the Arya Organic, which lists for $1,299–again $200 less than list price.
Alternatively, I bought a Focal Utopia in 2021 for $4,400 (idiotically), and not only will Focal not offer me a trade up to the 2022 version (which is sonically-identical to my unit and only resolves the faulty driver my unit is notorious for), but they want me to pay $4,999 for a product that they should offer me for free as far as I’m concerned.
These are only a few of the reasons I think HFM warrants this site’s consideration as a far more honest and reasonable Chinese alternative to the ridiculously overpriced and overhyped European brands that charge exponentially more on specious grounds.
Two years is a very long time for ear pads. Sennheiser ear pads wear a lot faster than that. I also have quite a bit of wear with Audio Technica R70X. Ear pads are a consumable, they are expected to need replacement and two years is already very good. My subjective experience if anything is that Hifiman ear pads if anything are on the more durable side.
Audeze which you mention specifically, if they are full leather pads they may last longer. But then you also have the Audeze tuning, which is generally terrible, and is also very inconsistent even within a single model... Audeze cannot make two headphones that sound the same from one day to the next, while Hifiman have extraordinarily good consistency, even between different models of a similar type (like the egg cup line) they have more FR consistency than Audeze have with a single model headphone from one day to the next.
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I agree that HFM ear pads are crap. I had problems with different pad thickness L and R and once there was comfort problem with bad formed foam. I've contacted directly HFM support every time and they replaced pad in warranty without issue. I've had not experienced pad self destruction myself yet. Maybe humidity is the key factor here.
ALaylowguy
Member
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I don't get the reason behind 90% of what being discussed very very rigorously here, a very expensive headphone turned out to be technically mediocre compared to its cheapo sibling and the all hell breaks loose. But hey the plus side is that ASR got a lot of traffic and I get to enjoin popcorn.
You are correct, many amplifiers would be unhappy driving the Susvaras directly.
In contrast, the Benchmark AHB2 is perfectly happy with no load, a high impedance load, or a very low impedance load.
For this reason, the AHB2 does not need the HE adapter when driving the Susvaras. We do not recommend the HE adapter with the AHB2. Use our direct-connect SpeakOn to XLR4 cable instead:
Benchmark NL4-XLR4 Headphone Adapter Cable for AHB2 Power Amplifier
NL4 to XLR4 Headphone adapter cable for use with power amplifiers. This cable provides a connection from the NL4 SpeakOn outputs on an audio power amplifier to the XLR4 input of a balanced headphone cable. This should only be used with low-sensitivity headphones that require large drive voltages.
This was already raised earlier. Post #7 in this thread.
Amir replied in post #9:
To which he was asked about the limiter of the AHB2 engaging in post #10:
To which he replied in post #11:
On another note, in the description of the NL4-XLR4 Headphone Adapter Cable why is the sensitivity of the HD800S listed as 93 dB at 1 V? Amir measured it as 94 dB at 0.265 V, i.e. 105.5 dB at 1 V. Sennheiser specifies 102 dB at 1 V in the manual (page 6).
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Good catch..
It should say:
Sennheiser HD 800 S - (105 dB at 1V), peak SPL with AHB2 is 134 dB, peak SPL with HPA4 is 131 dB
Note: the continuous power rating of the HD 800 S is 0.5W, the AHB2 will be able to deliver 2.2W continuous.
It should say:
Sennheiser HD 800 S - (105 dB at 1V), peak SPL with AHB2 is 134 dB, peak SPL with HPA4 is 131 dB
Note: the continuous power rating of the HD 800 S is 0.5W, the AHB2 will be able to deliver 2.2W continuous.
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Peak level with HPA4 would then be 126.2 dB at its 11.5 V, i.e. 21.2 dBV, output into 300 Ohm which is already 441 mW. You also have to add 12 dB to the 114.2 dB listed. How do you even get 118 dB there?
solderdude
Grand Contributor
It is not symmetrical. That would also add 6 dB by doubling the voltage across the driver not 5 dB.
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