HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review

[solderdude]

I don't know about K240, just read the reviews. But I love my EQ'ed K245 actually. Best bass in what is advertised as an open back headphone I ever heard.

Yep, elevated and sloping bass, the familiar 2kHz dip (looks at Susvara) and fierce treble peak at 7kHz (sharpness)

This was not a studio headphone though but targeted at music consumers.

 

[solderdude]

I find it very difficult to believe narrow band distortion at these levels would be audible at all. From what I know about distortion these should be masked.

When you would be playing music at 120dB average (so 140dB SPL low bass) you might encounter 114dB peaks in music at 5kHz.
Besides it is extremely narrow so harmonics would have to be hitting that exact frequency where the rest of the music would not.
When you would slow sweep at 114dB SPL you might start to throw the headphone off when it reaches 1kHz.
For low bass 114dB SPL is really nice and impressive.

The reason the plot is still helpful is that it shows where the pain is in this headphone (resonances)

I have no idea what was described by 'static sounds' but it could be frequencies that hit 2.5kHz and got loud harmonics and 5kHz fundamentals.
Perhaps they would register as 'clicks' instead of tones. It would be nice if a sample had been recorded.

As said, at normal levels there will be no distortion audible, just a tonal balance that might not be what everyone may like.
Folks that prefer a little less bass might also want a little less clarity might very well like this tuning. Nothing wrong with that.... well the price might be a hurdle.

 

[EGrunt]

First off happy holidays to everyone, I do more reading on this forum then posting and I always enjoy what I read and keep an open mind. I have always had some sort of headphone or earbud for air travel and yard work. Mostly Bose noise canceling and Apple Air Pods Max.

The wife of over 37 years asked me almost 2 years ago to start listening to my music via headphones. She does not share my passion for music listening when I listen to my 2-channel setup. My first purchase was a Sennheiser HD650 (open back). I still own them to this day but I felt they sounded dull sounding and I started to research various different headphones but was mostly closed back since my wife could hear what I was listening to with the HD650 since they were open back.

Living in SOCAL afforded me the opportunity to attend the SOCAL Can Jam (attended both 2022 and 2023). First off, the sound a speaker or headphone produces is subjective to the person who is listening to it. What sounds good to me may not sound good to you. I have always preferred more of V type EQ setting. My current headphone for listening is a Denon AH-D9200 ($1,600) and the reviews are all over the place. I purchased the Denon’s from Crutchfield because they have a 60-day return policy. I have a Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DAC and my amps are also the Schiit Folkvangr (tube amp) and my newly acquired Schiit Mjolnir 3, the icing on the cake is the Schiit Lokius EQ. One thing I like about Schiit is they have a store front to listen to their products and is within driving distance from my location. At least for me one has to be able to listen to the product they are purchasing. Not easy since companies like ZMF are internet base, Dan Clark Audio (no store front) even though I am 30 minutes from their office in San Diego.

I am a member on various audio forums and the reviews for the Susvara have always been positive and with the negative stating it requires a lot of power. Back in this year I was at T.H.E. Show SoCal 2023 in Orange County (Costa Mesa, California) which me and the wife of 37 years have gone to since 2016. We were looking for a smaller footprint front left and right speaker for our home theater listening area. The wife wanted a smaller foot print then what our old Mirage OM-5’s to conform to the WAF (wife acceptance factor). I also knew they would have a headphone section. I had a chance to listen to the HIFIMAN Susvara paired with a Feliks Audio Envy. I have to say what a beautiful sounding pairing but at a cost of 14k, not for the faint of heart. Even my frugal wife agreed it sounded magical and that means a lot from her since she does not share my passion for audio. I then attended the SOCAL Can Jam back in September of this year listened to the Susvara again and I really enjoyed the sound it produced but the price of admission was off putting. The ZMF room at Can Jam is always crowed but I managed to find and opening at the DCS Lina stack (32K for all 3 components). I had a chance to listen to the ZMF Caldera (did not click with me sound wise), ZMF Verite Closed (enjoyed), ZMF Atrium open (my favorite sound wise) and ZMF Atrium Closed (good but preferred the Atrium open). Three others that did not click with me sound wise, Focal Utopia $5k, Dan Clark Audio Stealth $4k, and Focal Stellia $3k. One notable sounding headphone was the T+A Solitaire P Planar headphone but also costly at $6,900.

I can understand the price of the Susvara can be off putting and there is definitely a point of diminishing returns. I appreciate the work that Amirs does in his reviews. I would encourage everyone to attend a Can Jam if it is close to were you live so it would allow you to listen to a plethora of headphones, amps, DAC’s, and other associated headphone equipment. I have attached some pictures I had taken from the SOCAL Can Jam 2023. I would have never thought about purchasing the Schiit Mjolnir 3 amp if I did not have a change to listen to it.

 

[Leporello]

Again, it is better to try and figure out why over the years people that constantly buy and sell headphones and gear, frequently getting frustrated, displeased, and disappointed in the gear they buy, often settle up on a Susvara on a setup they find agreeable and highly curated.

Before asking why we should ask "do they?" Or is this a story that Susvara fans like to tell themselves?

 

[Robbo99999]

Sorry, missed your point. Yes, you are right, adding a bass boost would improve the tonal balance of Susvara I think as its out of box tuning is treble tilted. I don't think distortion of HD600/650 at low frequencies matter much. 2nd harmonic of 60Hz would be 120Hz and 3rd would be 180Hz - which means if you boost low bass a bit, and it distorts, you also added some extra mid bass as a bonus. According to Dan Clark, that is usually what happens, so people get used to it and expect it, and that's why he added Stealth its mid bass bump if I recall correctly.

I don't reckon that's a plus point for such "high distortion" headphones. Some of the worst bass I've heard was a Harman boosted HD600 vs my other headphones. But yeah, adding bass boost to Susvara should be fine as it's low distortion in the bass.

 

[majingotan]

First off happy holidays to everyone, I do more reading on this forum then posting and I always enjoy what I read and keep an open mind. I have always had some sort of headphone or earbud for air travel and yard work. Mostly Bose noise canceling and Apple Air Pods Max.

The wife of over 37 years asked me almost 2 years ago to start listening to my music via headphones. She does not share my passion for music listening when I listen to my 2-channel setup. My first purchase was a Sennheiser HD650 (open back). I still own them to this day but I felt they sounded dull sounding and I started to research various different headphones but was mostly closed back since my wife could hear what I was listening to with the HD650 since they were open back.

Living in SOCAL afforded me the opportunity to attend the SOCAL Can Jam (attended both 2022 and 2023). First off, the sound a speaker or headphone produces is subjective to the person who is listening to it. What sounds good to me may not sound good to you. I have always preferred more of V type EQ setting. My current headphone for listening is a Denon AH-D9200 ($1,600) and the reviews are all over the place. I purchased the Denon’s from Crutchfield because they have a 60-day return policy. I have a Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DAC and my amps are also the Schiit Folkvangr (tube amp) and my newly acquired Schiit Mjolnir 3, the icing on the cake is the Schiit Lokius EQ. One thing I like about Schiit is they have a store front to listen to their products and is within driving distance from my location. At least for me one has to be able to listen to the product they are purchasing. Not easy since companies like ZMF are internet base, Dan Clark Audio (no store front) even though I am 30 minutes from their office in San Diego.

I am a member on various audio forums and the reviews for the Susvara have always been positive and with the negative stating it requires a lot of power. Back in this year I was at T.H.E. Show SoCal 2023 in Orange County (Costa Mesa, California) which me and the wife of 37 years have gone to since 2016. We were looking for a smaller footprint front left and right speaker for our home theater listening area. The wife wanted a smaller foot print then what our old Mirage OM-5’s to conform to the WAF (wife acceptance factor). I also knew they would have a headphone section. I had a chance to listen to the HIFIMAN Susvara paired with a Feliks Audio Envy. I have to say what a beautiful sounding pairing but at a cost of 14k, not for the faint of heart. Even my frugal wife agreed it sounded magical and that means a lot from her since she does not share my passion for audio. I then attended the SOCAL Can Jam back in September of this year listened to the Susvara again and I really enjoyed the sound it produced but the price of admission was off putting. The ZMF room at Can Jam is always crowed but I managed to find and opening at the DCS Lina stack (32K for all 3 components). I had a chance to listen to the ZMF Caldera (did not click with me sound wise), ZMF Verite Closed (enjoyed), ZMF Atrium open (my favorite sound wise) and ZMF Atrium Closed (good but preferred the Atrium open). Three others that did not click with me sound wise, Focal Utopia $5k, Dan Clark Audio Stealth $4k, and Focal Stellia $3k. One notable sounding headphone was the T+A Solitaire P Planar headphone but also costly at $6,900.

I can understand the price of the Susvara can be off putting and there is definitely a point of diminishing returns. I appreciate the work that Amirs does in his reviews. I would encourage everyone to attend a Can Jam if it is close to were you live so it would allow you to listen to a plethora of headphones, amps, DAC’s, and other associated headphone equipment. I have attached some pictures I had taken from the SOCAL Can Jam 2023. I would have never thought about purchasing the Schiit Mjolnir 3 amp if I did not have a change to listen to it.

That’s my tube amp there lol but mine’s a smaller version of it and has a solid state rectification instead. Same sentiments with what you perceived with the Susvara and of course paired with tubes. You don’t need a 300B amp such as the Feliks Envy for similar experience with a KT88 / KT66 SET amp. The effect box in the system sounds beautiful to me even though it has 5% THD. Quite the opposite of High Fidelity but beautiful sounding subjectively nonetheless. Just like the car radio that gives more enjoyment to his ears more than his high fidelity system

My OEM Car System has ruined HiFi for me. Thoughts?

I've come to a realization that my Mark Levinson OEM audio system in my 2015 Lexus RC-350 sounds drastically more enjoyable than any of my home audio HiFi setups. It's true that my home systems do sound more detailed, but they don't sound anywhere near as engaging and they all have a worse...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[bmwr75]

I've never paid $6k for a pair of speakers, much less for a headphone. Not going to happen, ever. Have never heard headphones that get even close to the fidelity of a well designed and acoustically treated dedicated listening room.

 

[Chagall]

Objectively however you cannot reject the fact that a $£€ 20 IEM is superior than Susvara.

Again I find this problematic and think it's more accurate like this:
Objectively you cannot reject that $£€ 20 IEM is superiorly measuring to Susvara.

IEM will sound different (good or bad) to each individual (with normal healthy hearing) when considering you are bypassing your outer ear's geometrical filters and your brain can't compensate even when the IEM is Harman tuned. Over-ears that effect is not so pronounced because the outer ear is in use and the sound field is bigger, so the brain compensates more easily.

Edit: There are also problems with IEMs that you can hear yourself breathe when you seal the ear canal (I find that highly annoying). And you don't get spatial qualities that over-ear can give.

 

[majingotan]

Again I find this problematic and think it's more accurate like this:
Objectively you cannot reject that $£€ 20 IEM is superiorly measuring to Susvara.

IEM will sound different (good or bad) to each individual (with normal healthy hearing) when considering you are bypassing your outer ear's geometrical filters and your brain can't compensate even when the IEM is Harman tuned. Over-ears that effect is not so pronounced because the outer ear is in use and the sound field is bigger, so the brain compensates more easily.

There's no problem at all! The objective fidelity does NOT care for subjective preferences. There's something called brain-burn in that lets everyone enjoy and have emotional connections to music from the sonic reproduction of every product there from your smartphone speakers all the way to million dollar systems. I already said the following on my previous post:

So if I was asked what headphone gear I would recommend, I’d definitely tell them to get the most transparent gear first ($£€ 20 IEM and a Qudelix 5K or an E30II/L30II with DCA E3/Expanse/Stealth for ones with heavy wallets) and have them learn on how music should sound like in the most accurate way). Then they can decide from themselves whether a poorly performing /distortion effect box system is preferable to their subjective taste or not. I’m willing to bet they will prefer the SOTA system since they have acquired the sound of accurate reproduction

 

[CleanSound]

Ahb2 is only slightly bettered by topping la90 in some specs. Nothing is close to it.

Agreed. I just want a comparison for reference.

Also keep in mind, the Benchmark's power into 8 is relatively modest.

 

[jody2k]

I threw a 114db through my old vintage speakers powered with my luxman speakeramp and to my surprise while holding my ear against the speaker I think I heard distortion,
also my closets and windows were shaking.

 

[caught gesture]

I threw a 114db through my old vintage speakers powered with my luxman speakeramp and to my surprise while holding my ear against the speaker I think I heard distortion,
also my closets and windows were shaking.

I hope that you have the latest generation of Luxman power amp. Only now can Luxman offer you what they mean by the “true depth of sound”. I guess that their earlier models only offered a partial depth of sound. Around 20K is all you need to achieve “rich musicality, full of vitality”.

 

[jody2k]

I hope that you have the latest generation of Luxman power amp. Only now can Luxman offer you what they mean by the “true depth of sound”. I guess that their earlier models only offered a partial depth of sound. Around 20K is all you need to achieve “rich musicality, full of vitality”.

Yes ofcourse, 20K minimum budget for a speakeramp and preferable in 2 seperate monoblocks for extra depthss and full 3d stage. Comes with a 5k power cable though for max details

 

[Thomas_A]

BD DT770 is popular in a studio as a monitor.
The reasons are simple.
It is cheap
BD has plenty in stock (quick and easy to obtain).
It is durable, no need to handle with care.
You can throw it around and even sit on them by accident.
Easy to fix if needed (headband padding and pads that wear out quickly).
For monitoring voices it works really well as it is neutral in that range.
Has decent isolation for a passive.
Long (fixed) cord.
Musicians usually don't care about fidelity and just want comfort and clear sound.
People see them on TV so this must be a good headphone and start using it.
Bass is elevated, does not bleed into the mids.
People perceive the treble peak as 'highly detailed sound'.
Myth is born.

Is it a good hifi headphone ? No it is not.
Does it sell well (just like Sennheisers)... Yep.
Easy to buy in stores and online ... yep
Still being sold after decades ... yep

All the things one would never do with a > $ 300 headphone, let alone a flagship.

Selling well perhaps but still giving ear pain and headache due to the treble peak...

 

[akkeosflomdis]

Attending events like Can Jam provides a unique opportunity to audition a variety of headphones and associated gear in one place, helping enthusiasts make more informed decisions about their audio setups. Your advice to encourage others to attend such events is spot on, as it allows individuals to explore and compare different options in person, fostering a deeper understanding of their audio preferences.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Unfortunately CanJam is loud and busy and time limited, but it's better than nothing. Store demos are best if possible.

 

[amirm]

Attending events like Can Jam provides a unique opportunity to audition a variety of headphones and associated gear in one place, helping enthusiasts make more informed decisions about their audio setups.

I doubt it. Listening to one headphone at a time is not going to teach you how it "sounds." You must have a frame of reference to compare to. To get meaningful results, research into speakers, headphones, etc. use at least a 3-way comparison with ideal being 5-way. Switchover must be quick so you are able to hold one fidelity in mind as you listen to the other.

I routinely listen to a headphone or speaker and think "X," then I correct their response and realize it is "Y" when I do rapid comparisons of with and without EQ.

I listen to headphones at Canjam and it tells me next to nothing other than when I can get them or the amp driving them to distort.

Above is also the reason subjective reviews read like random words. It is a hopeless case trying to quantify with any level of accuracy how they sound by themselves.

This is why I go through all the trouble of developing EQ. Next to measurements, it is the most powerful tool I have to properly and truly characterize headphone (or speaker) performance. And oh, to continue to train my ears on how impairments in frequency response sound like.

 

[amirm]

BTW, the main value in attending CanJam is listening to talks from proper experts like Dr. Olive.

 

[NDRQ]

Incredibly disappointing. The Susvara is a darling of the audiophools, so now we know that we should stay away from it (and save a lot of money).

Actually it is kinda expected. The random audiophool's favourite, ridiculously expensive stuff...it must be garbage based on the track records. I am starting to think that the extra stuff they love is probably some distortion or other artifact. Thats why they like the tube stuffs, the exotix garbage amplifiers and headphones...and it also had to be expensive so they can brag about it.

Though this still doesnt explain the case of exotic cables that do nothing. At least they are expensive too..

 

[Thomas_A]

I doubt it. Listening to one headphone at a time is not going to teach you how it "sounds." You must have a frame of reference to compare to. To get meaningful results, research into speakers, headphones, etc. use at least a 3-way comparison with ideal being 5-way. Switchover must be quick so you are able to hold one fidelity in mind as you listen to the other.

I routinely listen to a headphone or speaker and think "X," then I correct their response and realize it is "Y" when I do rapid comparisons of with and without EQ.

I listen to headphones at Canjam and it tells me next to nothing other than when I can get them or the amp driving them to distort.

Above is also the reason subjective reviews read like random words. It is a hopeless case trying to quantify with any level of accuracy how they sound by themselves.

This is why I go through all the trouble of developing EQ. Next to measurements, it is the most powerful tool I have to properly and truly characterize headphone (or speaker) performance. And oh, to continue to train my ears on how impairments in frequency response sound like.

It depends how you do it. Small deviations are of course hard, but many headphones have large enough deviations that are easily heard comparing to a reference (rapid switching). Even without a reference I ranked HD600 and the original AKG K271 (mk1) to be the most neutral headphones among 30 others, which measurements later confirmed.