HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review

[TurtlePaul]

The reason is that two headphones with identical FR curves through a sine sweep will not sound the same.

Have you done any double blind testing?

Given the vast differences in frequency response and distortion graphs between nearly all headphones, this is a pretty wild claim.

 

[Soria Moria]

If I show you ten FR curves of 10 different headphones and their THDs and ask you to spend $5,000 on one, would you be able to make a decision without listening to them? I'm sure you can't.

Sure I can. But there are other factors that matter as well. Comfort, looks, driveability.

 

[Coverpage]

Have you done any double blind testing?

Given the vast differences in frequency response and distortion graphs between nearly all headphones, this is a pretty wild claim.

Try to do a practical test yourself. Find two headphones with a similar FR curve. See if they sound similar. Try to EQ them to sound the same by deriving it from (dividing) the two FR curves.

 

[trollbearpig_what]

Having been to an audio show and listened to countless summit level headphones and walking away with only the Susvara dropping my jaw, all I can say is you should at the very least give these a proper listen before you discount them for something with a nicer graph.

The graphs absolutely still have merit though. For example comparing this review with the low-distortion Caldera, I felt the Caldera was more clear and fast than the Susvara and the Susvara having a slightly funky highs which I think can be shown here comparing the two headphone reviews. However with that said, I traded the Calderas for the Susvara because despite the Caldera measuring better, I much preferred the ethereal tonality of the Susvara that just feels so airy allowing me to listen for hours, while having just enough bass and texture to satisfy, the forward mids and vocals that just blew me away, and the phenomena where the sound feels so spacious as if it's coming from nowhere.

Anyway, this review for me is proof that the current measurements are flawed, or atleast missing certain dimensions because if you're measuring the Susvara and not coming away with certain metrics blowing away a $20 IEM, then something is obviously wrong :'D, because - yes my ears tell me these sound more amazing then anything I've listened to before and I'll defend that hill.

 

[virtua]

Except Susvara does not measure like s#!t.. Actually it measures OK, acceptable, pass on the pass / fail scale. It does not sound good is Amir's opinion. There is no measurement to suggest that.

I was talking more in broader strokes. I know this is the Susvara thread but I wasn't referencing this headphone directly, I don't own and have never actually listened to this headphone.

But I see in this thread people actively defending this headphone, some even taking offense, people saying it's measuring nowhere near as good as it should be, whether for the cash or not etc, some people that can't wrap their head around why anyone would like this headphone, let alone pay the money for it. Comparing it to the likes of the Salnotes Zero:2 etc. But I can relate to those who do own and love it because I've been where they are (for even worse graphing headphones many times actually) and felt I could share my perspective, and I definitely don't feel alone with it.

I know it doesn't make rational sense at all, I can't make sense of it and I wish I could concile it but it's hard. But I came to accept it. I don't know why I love these poor or just average measuring headphones but I do, often times more than stuff that measures good. I know I'm not alone here, so this is why I mention it.

 

[SlothRock]

Having been to an audio show and listened to countless summit level headphones and walking away with only the Susvara dropping my jaw, all I can say is you should at the very least give these a proper listen before you discount them for something with a nicer graph.

The graphs absolutely still have merit though. For example comparing this review with the low-distortion Caldera, I felt the Caldera was more clear and fast than the Susvara and the Susvara having a slightly funky highs which I think can be shown here comparing the two headphone reviews. However with that said, I traded the Calderas for the Susvara because despite the Caldera measuring better, I much preferred the ethereal tonality of the Susvara that just feels so airy allowing me to listen for hours, while having just enough bass and texture to satisfy, the forward mids and vocals that just blew me away, and the phenomena where the sound feels so spacious as if it's coming from nowhere.

Anyway, this review for me is proof that the current measurements are flawed, or atleast missing certain dimensions because if you're measuring the Susvara and not coming away with certain metrics blowing away a $20 IEM, then something is obviously wrong :'D, because - yes my ears tell me these sound more amazing then anything I've listened to before and I'll defend that hill.

I mean even Crinacle, who created the $20 IEM everyone keeps referring to, has the Susvara firmly in his “S” rating tier alongside the HE1. So he created a perfect measuring, perfect distortion IEM but still considers the Susvara as one of the best headphones on the market while he doesn’t think very highly of the “perfect” (on this forum) Dan Clark’s.

I’ve purchased a lot that I’ve loved based on this forum (Holo audio products, KH 120’s, KH 750’s, 7Hz Crinacle 2) but I still love my Susvaras even if they’re getting panned here - makes me also feel like measurements aren’t everything to enjoyment

 

[Coverpage]

Sure I can. But there are other factors that matter as well. Comfort, looks, driveability.

Perhaps someone can collate FR graphs that look similar between headphones and IEMs. And you should listen to them in some stores.

Trust your ears; they'll sound very different from each other.

I hope you don't really make decisions based on the FR curve alone, with some notion that it's a complete description of the headphones.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

A (small?) portion of members are somewhat obsessed with price/performance...

Don't think so. For $6k I expect excellence in every respect. That simple. And this headphone just does not cut it.

 

[JDS]

Hi Amir,

Only a few days ago you reviewed the $300 Anune AR5000, which is only 5% of the cost of the Susvara, and had this to say:

"Out of the box tonality lacks some bass and treble, which is easily remedied with equalisation. Once there, combine with its very high sensitivity, you have a delightful headphone to listen to .... the overall response was to die for on reference tracks. Bass response was solid and deep. High frequencies combined with very good spatial qualities put a smile on my face. Importantly, this thing runs on candle light amount of power. This means that you can drive it hard and get excellent dynamics and fidelity.

The AR5000 is incredibly nice looking. Modern yet stylistic. What's more, even though it is made out of metal, it is extremely light. So much so that when I grabbed the box, I thought they had forgotten to include the headphone! This makes it comfortable to wear."

Aune AR5000 Headphone Review

This is the review, listening tests, EQ and detailed measurements of the Aune AR5000 open back headphone. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $299. The AR5000 is incredibly nice looking. Modern yet stylistic. What's more, even though it is made out of metal, it is extremely light. So...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The price / performance ratio between these two products could not be greater and your review demonstrates just how dysfunctional the audio industry has become and the incredible disparity between the competency of manufacturers and their engineers. Can't they measure?

It reinforces the need for ASR to continue it's good work informing and educating consumers and manufacturers. I'm sending you $50 today.

Was going to make much the same point. The two products even look somewhat similar.

 

[trollbearpig_what]

@amirm Did you do any subjective listening tests between the two amps?

 

[ROOSKIE]

Gucci bags and speakers wires..not sure what was the point.

You really do not understand what I was driving at? I find that hard to believe. Oh well.

 

[staticV3]

I mean even Crinacle, who created the $20 IEM everyone keeps referring to, has the Susvara firmly in his “S” rating tier alongside the HE1. So he created a perfect measuring, perfect distortion IEM but still considers the Susvara as one of the best headphones on the market while he doesn’t think very highly of the “perfect” (on this forum) Dan Clark’s.

AFAIK, Crinacle has yet to review one of DCA's Harman compliant headphones.

Every model on his list is either from before DCA started targeting OE2018, or like with the Noire, it came with the wrong ear pads.

 

[ROOSKIE]

@amirm Did you do any subjective listening tests between the two amps?

He did but the results are published as unbelievably verbose paid prose and poetry over at What HiFi and Stereophile.
How do you think he funds this site?
The left hand and right hand DO know each other well...

Kidding!!. I am pretty sure such a test needs to be product concealed. Nobody is immune from biases and these likley sound very similiar if not identical.

Audio Listening Test That Fooled the Hollywood Sapphire Group

Some of the most highly trained audiophiles in the industry were asked to do a blind “A-B” listening comparison test of two audio circuits. Were they able to hear a difference, or were they fooled?

www.audioholics.com

 

[trollbearpig_what]

He did but the results are published as unbelievably verbose paid prose and poetry over at What HiFi and Stereophile.
How do you think he funds this site?
The left hand and right hand DO know each other well...

Kidding!!. I am pretty sure such a test needs to be product concealed. Nobody is immune from biases and these likley sound very similiar if not identical.

Audio Listening Test That Fooled the Hollywood Sapphire Group

Some of the most highly trained audiophiles in the industry were asked to do a blind “A-B” listening comparison test of two audio circuits. Were they able to hear a difference, or were they fooled?

www.audioholics.com

I agree they likely sound the same or similar, but this is such a hotly debated topic for the Susvaras in particular and Amir having in hand the ability to compare one of the best measuring amps with one of the most recommended speaker amps for the Sus, that it seems like a good opportunity to put as much data as possible behind the truth.

A proper blind A/B test between the two here could help put that to bed as I would trust Amirs ability to do it right. I think as it stands the current measurements - since they are clearly missing some sonic elements - are not enough to say both amps are identical unfortunately D’:

 

[Rhamnetin]

I'm happy to see another overpriced audiophool product reviewed, very interesting measurements indeed. I hope someone eventually sends the $5,500 HE-R10P as well.

 

[solderdude]

HiFiMAN HE-R10 Planar - Official Thread

https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/he-r10-planar.html Starting a thread on this headphone. This is one of two new closed-back headphones from HiFiMAN, that have a cup design ‘inspired by’ the old Sony MDR-R10. To be honest, I have no idea why they went with that design, because that Sony was a...

forum.headphones.com

 

[Robbo99999]

Here we go again. People who can afford luxury goods like these Susvara don't really care to hear the objectivist tilt on whether this product is good or not. I may be generalizing this but I honestly don't think that individuals that want to buy these at the cost they're selling are looking for anything but having these as a luxury product to show off. Quit making a hash of this as a poor product and not meeting objective targets, this product is sold for the price of satisfying a niche in the high-end market.

Of course it should be pointed out the pitfalls of this product - it doesn't get some kind of obscure "pass" from that critique just because it fits into the classic high end audiophool (if being dramatic) category of products!

 

[Robbo99999]

While I haven’t heard any of these planar headphones, my mental model of the phase and frequency grass should sound similar to a guitar ‘phazer’ pedal.

Phazer (wikipedia)

While this effect can sound pleasant, you can’t turn it off with the headphones.

edit: maybe the sound would be closer to a flanger (wikipedia).

Those sharp frequency response deviations won’t be heard in the frequency domain per se, but our brain will try to interpret extra ‘fullness’ and ‘complexity’ from the grass.

(Possibly, but the headphone is a lot more extreme in terms of it's number of oscillations over X spread frequency range than the graphs at that wiki page, but I understand your parallels you're deriving.)

 

[Rhamnetin]

Of course it should be pointed out the pitfalls of this product - it doesn't get some kind of obscure "pass" from that critique just because it fits into the classic high end audiophool (if being dramatic) category of products!

Yeah it's mind boggling how negatively people react to measurements. Why let it bother you that something you like the sound of doesn't measure well? Or why is it wrong for a reviewer to not recommend a product that measures poorly in some areas and costs manyl times what it should? Being seriously flawed AND overpriced exempts a product from criticism?

 

[MediumRare]

Audibly broken = headless panther.