phoenixsong
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It appears on row 18 for meWhy does Sundara not appear in the recommended headphones list in the review index ?
It appears on row 18 for meWhy does Sundara not appear in the recommended headphones list in the review index ?
In my estimation, yes the Sundara is a worthy upgrade from the he400i 2020, it's somewhat of a benchmark in it's price range. It's a much better HP, EQ or not. I've owned Sundara and still own he400i 2020, along with Ananda and Arya. Only reason that I still own the he400i is bc it was cheap and I used it for a backup when I was waiting on my Arya.But THE question remains... Is Sundara's performance-vs-price worth upgrading from HE400i (2020)?
In my estimation, yes the Sundara is a worthy upgrade from the he400i 2020, it's somewhat of a benchmark in it's price range. It's a much better HP, EQ or not. I've owned Sundara and still own he400i 2020, along with Ananda and Arya. Only reason that I still own the he400i is bc it was cheap and I used it for a backup when I was waiting on my Arya.
While I understand that this may not be popular on this site, I'd like to point out that measurement charts are not the ultimate indicator of how something sounds. Measurements of a HP can give a very vague or rough estimate of how something may sound, but IRL it can sound totally different than the measurements would indicate, ex: Ananda review and owners' comments. We still have to listen to it. As an owner of both (and higher tiered cans), I made that comment from experience and I stand by it. He400i 2020 doesn't have the soundstage, imaging, mids/vocal clarity and realism, or bass quantity and bass quality of the Sundara and sounds quite different. Have you listened to both? If so, what is your impression of both when side by side?Oh really, and what exactly makes it a "much better HP, EQ or not"? I've seen others opining similar sentiments, but when pressed all you get is the usual vague, amorphous audiophile-speak with nothing in the measurements to back this up, leading to the much more likely conclusion that subconscious cost bias is heavily at play.
Have you heard both of them? EQ doesn't reproduce the exact same results with two differently designed HPs. While both are good, Sundara to me brings a little more to the table in it's natural, un-EQ'd state. EQ'd they may be a little closer but Sundara is still a more capable HP, EQ'd or not. More and better bass, more present and realistic mids, a less peaky treble, and an overall more complete HP. Once again I've heard and owned both. You?
For one, not everyone likes Oratory's EQ, whatever his preference scores say.Have you heard both of them EQed to the same target i.e. with Oratory's PEQ profiles I linked above? Oh and I'm glad to see you've toned down the hyperbole (don't audiophiles just love hyperbole) from 'the Sundara is much better' to 'it brings a little more to the table'. That's progress at least.
For one, not everyone likes Oratory's EQ, whatever his preference scores say.
Two, headphone measurements do not tell you nearly as much about how the products sound than measurements on electronics do.
From several post you make on this forum I conclude you don't understand that.
There is no such thing as A HE400i and A Sundara.
There are different HE400i and Sundara produced over time with different tonal response also requiring EQ to be different depending on year of production (pads causing differences mostly).
Just enjoy your HE400i or Sundara or whatever headphone one prefers. All models differ in one place or another and not everyone values the same headphone's properties similarly.
You made me laugh! Thank you!From your post here I conclude you don't understand any of this.
I suppose you have a problem with my choice of words? "Better" is subjective in all things concerning HPs as far as the listening experience goes. I was responding to another post asking if Sundara is worth getting over he400i 2020. I would still say that Sundara is an all around more complete HP, EQ'd or not, subjectively speaking ofc.For one, you've missed the point. I was asking if they still think the Sundara sound "much better" when they are EQed to the same target. Oratory's EQs to the Harman target are an easy way of doing this, but can still be adjusted to a different target to taste (Oratory even states this on his PDFs and now specifically curates his EQ filters for such easy intuitive adjustment). As long as both headphones are adjusted to the same target, I don't care what that target is for the purpose of this argument.
Two, Dr Sean Olive of Harman's research showed his predicted preference scores (which Oratory calculates on his PDFs) determined by frequency response measurements had an 86% accuracy with actual preference scores given in scientifically controlled, double-blind listening studies. Note this headphone preference score does not necessarily correspond to similarity in 'how the products sound' as you seem to think, a common mistake from people who haven't actually read the research. Would you care to show me some scientific research that shows a better (or even equal) correlation than 86% between SINAD/THD and electronics' sound preference? (Doubt it, because the correlation between THD and preference is actually poor, especially at the low distortion levels of the vast majority of electronics that aren't defective in design/implementation).
From your post here I conclude you don't understand any of this.
I suppose you have a problem with my choice of words?
Whew, what does it even matter. I stated what I thought when someone posed question. Oratory is one set of EQ targets that may not be everyone's flavor, such as myself. Have fun with your cans. No need for you to seek a better listening experience. Stay stuck. I'm out.
Until you do this, you cannot claim that the Sundara is better "EQ'd or not". Unlike other audiophile forums where hyperbolic anectodal claims are thrown around and lapped up without a moment's thought, on this forum, truth matters, and you will be challenged if you make invalid claims like you have done here.Oratory's EQs to the Harman target are an easy way of doing this, but can still be adjusted to a different target to taste (Oratory even states this on his PDFs and now specifically curates his EQ filters for such easy intuitive adjustment). As long as both headphones are adjusted to the same target, I don't care what that target is for the purpose of this argument.