Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)

[Robbo99999]

They potentially could if they were EQ'ed exactly to your HRTF but none are and headphones (sounds coming from the sides) also can't do this.
The brain is a strange device though and some people (not me) they seem to be able to 'create' some depth somehow.

Completely false. 100% depend on your brain/ears translation of the soundwaves. My Campfire Andromeda IEM reproduce the same amount of spatial effects (depth, height, width) as my Susvara headphones just on different scale due to physical limitations of the driver distance to ear

Soundstage is a really personal thing, and definitely something to do with how your brain / fluid imagination / & HRTF play into whatever is being received at your eardrum. I know from your prior posts @majingotan that you are a good soundstage junky in that you can hear a lot of differences in that arena, some people can & some people can't - I think I used to be more of a soundstage junky than I am currently, my brain can still differentiate some differences between headphones, but I think I'm becoming more tonality & "sound" focussed nowadays rather than the soundstage. I still appreciate soundstage of different headphones for music listening and can differentiate front to back when using Virtual 7.1 Surround Sound when in the form of Soundblaster SBX for gaming in headphones, but for some reason I'm starting to become more tonality & "pure sound" focussed when it comes to headphones for music listening. I've found that some days I can hear or experience the soundstage differences or effects of the tracks I know well differently, some days it can be quite holographic in nature & others not so much, and this isn't anything to do with taking substances, as I don't do drugs apart from caffeine and sometimes too much alcohol. I find soundstage quite unstable nowadays, but I still do notice inherent differences between headphones for this property - but I'm convinced it's something to do with the "flexibility" of your brain combined with some kind of unknown properties within the headphone that help trigger these perceptions. Soundstage in headphones is a strange one!

 

[Bernard23]

Soundstage with a stereo pair of loudspeakers is a pretty major compromise without designing the room specifically. Play a guitar or a drumkit in your lounge along with a record and ask a blindfold friend to identify the live instrument. 2.X is already outdated, but like vinyl we will cling on

 

[majingotan]

Binaural or HPL recordings and DSP such Dolby Headphones or IMHO the best so far, Apple Spatial Audio, pretty much even out the discrepancy between headphones and IEMs when it comes to soundstage perception. A mere AirPods 3 can provide you with out of the head imaging with spatial audio turned on similar to what you will experience with well known headphones that have wide soundstage such as the HD800, HE1000SE/V2, Arya Stealth, Susvara, DCA Expanse and DCA Stealth on their default FR tuning. What matters more than width is the positioning of the image across the soundstage where there should be no 3-blob effect or a hole in the presentation (these type of poor imaging can happen on headphones because there’s no natural crossfeed). Then again, there’s no correct soundstage interpretation on headphones in general since they lack the physical distance and natural crossfeed of a 2-channel setup, just don’t have any 3 blob effect or hole in the soundstage.

 

[tbob22]

I have a pair of Hifiman Sundaras on the way and already have a Sanskrit MKIII that I picked up for $60 a while back. On the amp side would the L30II be a good pairing?

 

[Aynsley]

I have a pair of Hifiman Sundaras on the way and already have a Sanskrit MKIII that I picked up for $60 a while back. On the amp side would the L30II be a good pairing?

I have no problem running my Sundaras from a Topping L30, with the gain switch set to +9dB. Don't know about the pairing with the Sanskrit. I have the E30+L30 combo.

 

[tbob22]

Grabbed Sundaras and Schiit Magni Heretic then paired with the Sanskrit 10th MKIII - the soundstage is not massively improved over the HD6xx but it's definitely more open sounding.

After adjusting EQ I'm pretty happy with how things sound - I feel like the Sundaras go much lower especially after EQ.

I feel like I'm missing a little detail (maybe highs are slightly grainy?), mid-bass punch and mid-high impact from things like cymbals compared to my fully REW/EQed/Peace (32 band) Wharfedale 10.1's in my office though EQing helped a lot. It's much closer to having speakers in the room compared to just about any headphone I've heard yet.

I do have to run it on the high gain to get enough volume especially after EQ.

 

[tbob22]

Current EQ. Even with some of the common EQ's I was getting significant listening fatigue. Bringing down 10-13k seemed to help. I also like bass - the Sundaras do quite well in that regard.

 

[tbob22]

Really strange thing - I'm noticing channel imbalance if I use the correct wires (left to left, right to right) even if I rotate the headphones so the right speaker on on my left ear (have to set right headphone to 95 in windows).

But if I change the wire to go to opposite sides (left to right and right to left) then it doesn't seem to happen.

Listened to the same song over and over, in the correct wiring the vocals are always slightly right leaning, in the opposite it's dead center at 100/100, currently doing this and wearing backwards. I'll have to pick up another wire and test again...

 

[solderdude]

Have you used a mono signal ?
Channel imbalance should always be checked using a mono signal.

 

[tbob22]

Have you used a mono signal ?
Channel imbalance should always be checked using a mono signal.

I did test using the filter in PEACE EQ to make it mono. May be something up with the included cable.

 

[solderdude]

That is easily checked with a multimeter.

 

[tbob22]

Here is where I ended up with the EQ. Reducing some of the midrange really helped with fatigue.

That is easily checked with a multimeter.

I'll have to try that.

 

[Ufasas]

Joined sundara club, used for 156,- from ebay, gonna pair with K7, can't wait to see them arrived

 

[johny_2000]

Are there any reasons to buy Sundara now?
They've lowered the price over the years (2017-2024) and now cost $299 new / $199 refurb.
But from a technical driver configuration perspective, they seem outdated to me compared to more recent planar headphones.

 

[marcom22]

Are there any reasons to buy Sundara now?
They've lowered the price over the years (2017-2024) and now cost $299 new / $199 refurb.
But from a technical driver configuration perspective, they seem outdated to me compared to more recent planar headphones.

Outdated ..... Why?

 

[johny_2000]

Outdated ..... Why?

The driver design: HiFiMan - single magnetic array on the diaphragm side. The competitors - double magnetic array on each side of the diaphragm.

 

[solderdude]

Single sided has the advantage of not having magnets between the membrane and ear, it is cheaper and a bit lighter in weight.
Single sided has the disadvantage of lower sensitivity and is not as linear at larger excursions.

 

[johny_2000]

Single sided has the advantage of not having magnets between the membrane and ear, it is cheaper and a bit lighter in weight.
Single sided has the disadvantage of lower sensitivity and is not as linear at larger excursions.

Make sense. But without laboratory tests it is difficult to judge. And also the absence of well-known headphone manufacturers (Sennheiser, Byerdynamic, AKG, Audio-Technica, Sony, Denon, Fostex, Focal, etc.) in this segment of the headphone market.

 

[solderdude]

Dynamic drivers are easier, cheaper, smaller, more 'tunable' and more lightweight to produce in large qty's than planar drivers.

 

[marcom22]

The driver design: HiFiMan - single magnetic array on the diaphragm side. The competitors - double magnetic array on each side of the diaphragm.

Interesting ..... Thanks, and the Monolith headphones How are they assembled?