Hifiman HE400i Review (planar headphone)

[solderdude]

red is the AKG? And do you think a bright or "relaxed" sound is more enjoyable in gaming?

Gaming needs upper midrange (1-3kHz).

Relaxing sound can do with less upper midrange.

considering the headphones together with the amp you think the AKGs are better

Sensitivity of HE400i = 106dB/V , AKG K702 = 106dB/V impedance difference is small so both will perform equally good on the same amp.
106dB/V is not very sensitive so the used amp must be able to supply enough voltage and gain.

 

[Robbo99999]

I would like to buy the 2020 model, do you know what changes? the differences between hifiman he-400i and he-400i 2020.

I know solderdude has showed you his measurements already (which are done on a flat plate), but Oratory has measured the two versions on his GRAS rig, which is the "same" one that Amir uses here on ASR. Here's the differences:

Shows the same bass difference comment that solderdude mentioned, and I think it tallies in other areas mostly.

And vs the K702:

By the way, here's the link to Oratory's Grapher Tool so you can compare any headphones he's measured: https://headphonedatabase.com/oratory/headphones?ids=138,91,37

You mentioned gaming - the K702 will be better for that in my experience of K702 headphones vs various others (including the HE4XX which is really quite similar to the HE400i that you're talking about).

In those other threads I mentioned to you the various problems with the K702 vs some other headphones. You just need to get to a point where you weigh it all up & make a decision to buy one of them or a few of them and then return the ones you don't like (as Jimbob mentioned). (I still think the HD560s is the one that will most reliably tick the most boxes that you want.)

EDIT: HD560s thrown in with all the headphones we've mentioned so far (graph zoomed in tighter as now soooo many lines on it!):

 

[ThomsBrown92]

Preference scores

HE400i 2020 85
K702 80

AutoEq/results/RANKING.md at master · jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

Automatic headphone equalization from frequency responses - jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

github.com

is the score given based on how neutral are the headphones? the more they feed, the higher the score? Wonder why I suppose Harman is referring to headphones that are as full-neutral as possible, and not V-shape or anything else

 

[Jimbob54]

is the score given based on how neutral are the headphones? the more they feed, the higher the score? Wonder why I suppose Harman is referring to headphones that are as full-neutral as possible, and not V-shape or anything else

I'd have a search on here and elsewhere about the Harman headphone target and the research behind it. The question of what is "neutral" in speakers and headphones isn't an easy one to answer.

The one thing for sure is no one says is that the neutral response for headphones is a flat line.

 

[ThomsBrown92]

I'd have a search on here and elsewhere about the Harman headphone target and the research behind it. The question of what is "neutral" in speakers and headphones isn't an easy one to answer.

The one thing for sure is no one says is that the neutral response for headphones is a flat line.

yes, anyway i think i buy the AKG K702, but analyzing that linked list of the top headphones for harman lens i noticed that there is an additional pair of AKG K702, namely the AKG K702 65th anniversary. Doing some research I see that these came out 9 years ago, while the K702s 2 years ago I think. There are differences, from that list I see that absurdly those released 9 years ago are better.



@solderdude

 

[Jimbob54]

yes, anyway i think i buy the AKG K702, but analyzing that linked list of the top headphones for harman lens i noticed that there is an additional pair of AKG K702, namely the AKG K702 65th anniversary. Doing some research I see that these came out 9 years ago, while the K702s 2 years ago I think. There are differences, from that list I see that absurdly those released 9 years ago are better.



@solderdude

The K702 was 2010. Enjoy them.

 

[ThomsBrown92]

The K702 was 2010. Enjoy them.

which? the normal model or the 65th model. There are two models

 

[solderdude]

The Harman preference rating is based on smoothness of the frequency response, tonal tilt, bass boost etc.
5 headphones near the top of the ranking chart can sound very different from each other and anything but 'neutral' .
Besides it is only true when measured on a specific test fixture and as determined by an algortihm. Another test fixture or someone actual head or using a different weighing in importance of aspects and the ranking could be radically different.

Put a few headphones with nearly the same rating in the hands of 5 different people and no one will say all these headphones will have closely the same rating.

 

[ThomsBrown92]

The Harman preference rating is based on smoothness of the frequency response, tonal tilt, bass boost etc.
5 headphones near the top of the ranking chart can sound very different from each other and anything but 'neutral' .
Besides it is only true when measured on a specific test fixture and as determined by an algortihm. Another test fixture or someone actual head or using a different weighing in importance of aspects and the ranking could be radically different.

Put a few headphones with nearly the same rating in the hands of 5 different people and no one will say all these headphones will have closely the same rating.

The Harman preference rating is based on smoothness of the frequency response, tonal tilt, bass boost etc.
5 headphones near the top of the ranking chart can sound very different from each other and anything but 'neutral' .
Besides it is only true when measured on a specific test fixture and as determined by an algortihm. Another test fixture or someone actual head or using a different weighing in importance of aspects and the ranking could be radically different.

Put a few headphones with nearly the same rating in the hands of 5 different people and no one will say all these headphones will have closely the same rating.

is the "slope" also dictated by listening to users? or in that case the data is objectively analyzed? and then more generally describes whether the headphones have a warmer (<0) or brighter (> 0) tone

 

[solderdude]

is the "slope" also dictated by listening to users? or in that case the data is objectively analyzed? and then more generally describes whether the headphones have a warmer (<0) or brighter (> 0) tone

The slope rating is determined by the measurements only.
Warmth/neutral/bright in general is the 'average tilt' of the (target corrected) response between 200Hz and 4kHz.
In reality this tilt/response can be smooth (results in higher score) or wobbly (results in lower score).

 

[Jimbob54]

which? the normal model or the 65th model. There are two models

The K702 https://www.soundguys.com/akg-k702-review-73009/

 

[Robbo99999]

yes, anyway i think i buy the AKG K702, but analyzing that linked list of the top headphones for harman lens i noticed that there is an additional pair of AKG K702, namely the AKG K702 65th anniversary. Doing some research I see that these came out 9 years ago, while the K702s 2 years ago I think. There are differences, from that list I see that absurdly those released 9 years ago are better.



@solderdude

Don't get the Anniversary Edition, it doesn't have angled pads if I recall correctly. Therefore the Anniversary Edition is likely to have a worse soundstage than the standard K702 and therefore be a worse headphone for gaming.

 

[ThomsBrown92]

Don't get the Anniversary Edition, it doesn't have angled pads if I recall correctly. Therefore the Anniversary Edition is likely to have a worse soundstage than the standard K702 and therefore be a worse headphone for gaming.

the model in the 2 screens attached below is the normal model right? No that 65th anniversary

 

[solderdude]

65 anni has blue accents, normal one = silver accents.

The anni just has a much higher price tag (around $ 600) and different ear pads with matched drivers and softer headband.
If one wants the sound to be the same as the original simply mount standard pads. The internals are the same.
Some folks say the anni has the K712 pads which would make them sound different indeed.

K702 vs K702 with K712 pads fitted.

 

[Jimbob54]

65 anni has blue accents, normal one = silver accents.

The anni just has a much higher price tag and different ear pads and matched drivers and softer headband.
If one wants the sound to be the same as the original simply mount standard pads. The internals are the same.

And wouldnt be available for E63 on Amazon

 

[Robbo99999]

the model in the 2 screens attached below is the normal model right? No that 65th anniversary

I think that's the standard K702. It doesn't say anything about 65th Anniversary in there does it......even though I don't speak Italian! Yeah, it's definitely the standard K702, you can't miss the blue accents on the earcups that are on the 65th Anniversary Edition........so you've definitely got the standard K702 in those pics, so that's the one to buy.

EDIT: how did you get it for 63 Euros? That's a very good price! It's a new one right, not used, not 2nd hand.

EDIT #2: tell me over in your own thread (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/headphones-with-better-soundstage-from-400-500€-downward.35148/ ), as we've probably cluttered up this HE400i review thread with enough off topic since the last posts where we stopped comparing it to the HE400i.

 

[ThomsBrown92]

65 anni has blue accents, normal one = silver accents.

The anni just has a much higher price tag (around $ 600) and different ear pads with matched drivers and softer headband.
If one wants the sound to be the same as the original simply mount standard pads. The internals are the same.
Some folks say the anni has the K712 pads which would make them sound different indeed.

K702 vs K702 with K712 pads fitted.

thanks, do you think I would do a good thing to change the pads with those of the K712, or would that be just bullshit? is something you do on headphones, or you risk distorting the headphones too much and all the resulting problems that you might have, perhaps for example. not to end up with equalizations

 

[solderdude]

That would depend on what sound and comfort you would prefer without EQ.
I cannot possible tell what your preference would be.
Note these pads are expensive € 49,- .... each... so you will need 2 thus € 100.- in pads for a € 63.- headphone to make it a bit wamer/bassier and less forward sounding.

 

[ThomsBrown92]

That would depend on what sound and comfort you would prefer without EQ.
I cannot possible tell what your preference would be.
Note these pads are expensive € 49,- .... each... so you will need 2 thus € 100.- in pads for a € 63.- headphone to make it a bit wamer/bassier and less forward sounding.

less advanced in the sense of a "smaller" soundstage? however I would use the eq at this point, hoping to get the same result.

 

[solderdude]

The 5 degree angle of the K702 pads is not going to magically increase 'soundstage' that much. The angle and driver-ear distance/position is too small for that, too little pinna activation.
The more 'forward' and clear tonal character also has influence on perceived 'soundstage' which I suspect is of more influence in the perceived better soundstage of the K702 compared to K712/7XX.
In fact, acc. to Rtings K712 has more pinna activation (filling in of the 3kHz dip) than the K702 but K702 gets a slightly higher rating because it follows the reference Rtings determined using headphones they found to have good sound stage more closely. This is all on premise that this is the only aspect on their specific HATS.

AKG K712 PRO vs AKG K702 Side-by-Side Headphones Comparison

The AKG K712 PRO and the AKG K702 are almost identical save for a few differences in design and frequency response. The K702 get a bit more bass but also sound brighter - unfortunately, to the point of sounding a bit sharp. The K712 will sound less harsh to most people, but their soundstage...

www.rtings.com