I have noticed that Sennheiser headphones (as an example) are often providing smoother frequency responses than Hifiman headphones - they have a lot less "fine grass" variations. However, I have an HE4XX and in no way would I describe it as a bad headphone, in fact I would describe it as a good headphone, although not my favourite. I don't think you can say that there is not a good Hifiman headphone out there, because there are already good ones out there.
I did indeed, and that was the whole point of the comparison I posted - those other HifiMan headphones don't have the Arya's 'mountainous treble spike' and 'huge mid scoop' (to a lesser extent for the HE400i in terms of the latter).
That 'fine grass' is just due to the measurements on this site and by Crinacle being polluted by environmental noise, as I've said before (see the second paragraph of this post). HifiMan headphones just happen to be some of the least isolating (most 'open') over-ear headphones available, as can be seen from Rtings' noise isolation measurements e.g. the treble isolation of the Arya and Sundara is around -4 dB, compared to the Sennheiser HD650's -12.5 dB, despite them all being open-back.
I'm on the same page as you that Hifiman headphones can be good in my experience (& maybe great for some people & some models).
(HE4XX in second pic here is praps a best case well-behaved case of a planar headphone, we won't refer to the Stealth though!)
The problem is you don't know how many units Oratory has averaged, which could vary quite a bit for different models. Yeah I was primarily referring to the fine grass variations as I said in my post. Note though by 'environmental noise' I'm not only including things like instrument fan noise (which can have a significant effect on the measurements), but also acoustic crosstalk from one channel to the other during the measurement (when stereo sweeps are used, as they are on this site), which could result in comb filtering and so 'jaggies' in the measurements (lower Q than the fine grass noise). HifiMan headphones not only have among the least noise isolation, but also the highest sound leakage, with the Arya leaking 72 dB at 1 ft with a 100 dB signal according to Rtings' measurements (compare that with 60 dB leakage for the HD650 for example). So HifiMan headphones will exhibit more acoustic crosstalk than other headphones (which it could be argued is actually a good thing, as crosstalk occurs in speaker playback, which most music is mixed and mastered on and for). When you look at other planars also with low isolation and high leakage they show comparable jaggedness. And it's not just planars either, but dynamic driver headphones with poor isolation and high leakage too. Unless acoustic crosstalk as well as more general environmental noise are controlled for by measuring with individual channel sweeps and acoustically isolating the measurement rig, conclusions that HifiMan (or planar) headphones have inherently more jagged frequency response than other headphones are invalid.
Crinacle uses a GRAS 43AG and measures each channel separately
I know he measures each channel separately, but is the measurement sweep signal stereo or single-channel? (Either way the rig isn't acoustically isolated, and is also portable so environmental noise won't even be a constant on-location.)
Some well thought out points, I suppose in order to really verify your ideas it would require some experimentation with the actual measurements on the part of Amir or anyone else with a suitable measurement setup......I mean that would be good to see so that we could drill down into what is really causing the tendency of planar for fine grass.....and just other anomalies in the measurements which you touched upon. Thinking about it further re your crosstalk points, you'd actually actually be exposed to those effects when you're listening to the headphone so the fine grass of planars (if this is the cause) would not really be a measurement anamoly, but an actual part of listening to such headphones - whether that be a positive or negative.....fine grass in itself wouldn't really be a positive, but the small amount of crosstalk could be for some people. I very very briefly tried crosstalk and I just found it degraded the sound, but there's probably a plethora of ways to set it up for a different experience....but I don't need crosstalk to enjoy my headphones so I've not gone down that route.
Although that's only a valid mention if he only plays the sweep on each channel seperately, like GaryH said above.
Yeah that's what I meant by this:
Of course the acoustic crosstalk with any headphone will be much less than with a pair of speakers, so whether this is an audible effect with headphones, or just manifests in the measurements with small high-Q variations (which research shows are less audible) that aren't even perceived is debateable.
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headphonetestlab.co.uk
I traded in my v2's for the v3's/Stealths. I'm impressed with HFM improving the sometimes "plasticky" or "metallic" timbre of the older versions out of the box. I'm also impressed with the increased bass "punch/dynamics" and it being quite a bit easier to drive - which makes amplifier matching much easier with the v3's. The older versions almost required one to use powerful discrete or hybrid Class A amps to improve those version's timbre deficiencies. Most of the THX/NFCA IC opamp based amps didn't sound natural with the older Aryas - and the main reason that those persons who didn't like the Arya's SQ mostly used THX amps with them. They weren't a good match - synergy wise.
Care to enlighten us as to what properties the discrete /class A amps have that the thx etc don't? And by that I mean where those properties would show in either the standard amp measurements done here or any other measurement that could be performed?
Nothing to see here people, just more total utter BS (Before Science) audiophile gobbledegook.
crinacle.com
You sure that's v2 and not v1?In-Ear Fidelity – Headphone Graph Comparison Tool
Easily compare industry-standard frequency response measurements of hundreds and hundreds of headphones.
Wow, I missed the boat on responding. I did get a used Gustard H20 and upgraded the stock opamps to Sparkos Labs ss-3602's, while also experimenting with Burson V6 Vivids (OEM opamps were LME-49720's). Class A with at least 2W with balanced ins would do them both well, IMO.
