Hifiman Arya Review (headphone)

[Ezees]

The 'control over drivers' and 'started and stopped on a dime' is not there in reality.
There is no 'taking control' as damping of orthos is mostly membrane tension and acoustic damping not electrical damping.

With a sensitivity of 107dB/V and 30 ohm impedance you will need 4.5V (0.7W) to reach 120dB SPL and 9V (3W) when EQ'ing to Harman.
Your ears won't be happy but can understand that it sounds mighty impressive with bass boost and turned up impressively loud.

For normal 'loud' listening levels you will only need about 1V (2V when EQ'ed to Harman) = 0.1W (0.06A)
The 11.9W 'headroom' is not used nor does it guarantee a 'higher quality' or 'different' power.
All connected low output R amps are simply voltage sources, not power sources.
You do not 'push' power into a driver. You put a varying voltage across it and it draws a current depending on the voltage at that moment

Those specs you posted are for dynamics - planars are a little different and many require more current to really get their drivers moving. Do you own the Arya? Have you tried giving it more power than what you posted as spec'd? Try it and report back please.

 

[Ezees]

Which can only mean either your impressions are incorrect or you were actually using more power/ voltage . Or possibly one of the 2 amps is colouring the sound.

Not at all. Do you own the Arya??? Or any planar??? Have you any experience "juicing them up" via a powerful amp (for a HP amp, that is)??? Funny that you can make conjectures of my impressions. I was using more power (voltage and current). All of my amps are pretty neutral (ie: I own no tube amps), but have slight differences in presentation (the Emo doesn't stage as "wide or deep" and my Gustard and isn't as smooth sounding).

 

[Bernard23]

Of course the whole 12 watts can't be used or else I'd go deaf and the drivers would be damaged. It's why I used a preamp in front of the Emo to control overall volume levels. The Arya's planar drivers can make use of substantially more power (current, really) compared to dynamics - and as a result they become different beast altogether. Don't knock it till you've tried it. Which of you is an Arya owner??? Try hooking them up to a speaker amp as an experiment then report back with what you find.

I've read through this several times, and I'm still not sure what you mean by "the drivers can make use of substantially more power" and how that differs from any other electromechanical transducer? Do you really mean they are a low distortion driver?

 

[Ezees]

The 'control over drivers' and 'started and stopped on a dime' is not there in reality.
There is no 'taking control' as damping of orthos is mostly membrane tension and acoustic damping not electrical damping.

With a sensitivity of 107dB/V and 30 ohm impedance you will need 4.5V (0.7W) to reach 120dB SPL and 9V (3W) when EQ'ing to Harman.
Your ears won't be happy but can understand that it sounds mighty impressive with bass boost and turned up impressively loud.

For normal 'loud' listening levels you will only need about 1V (2V when EQ'ed to Harman) = 0.1W (0.06A)
The 11.9W 'headroom' is not used nor does it guarantee a 'higher quality' or 'different' power.
All connected low output R amps are simply voltage sources, not power sources.
You do not 'push' power into a driver. You put a varying voltage across it and it draws a current depending on the voltage at that moment.

Those specs mostly apply to dynamics - planars are different. The stronger the magnetic field (via the suspended magnets and the voltage and current going through the traces) the "quicker" and more precise the planar driver will respond (ie: more control). Do you own the Arya and have you tried giving it more power??? Though the Arya can't use and isn't given the whole ~12 watts (or...damage), it did soak up quite a bit of power from the Emo while being volume controlled from the Gustard. I got the sense of the Arya being unfettered by power limitations - and it was a very fun ride. Don't knock it til you've tried it...

Your ears won't be happy but can understand that it sounds mighty impressive with bass boost and turned up impressively loud.

Not at all. There's no bass boost and I don't EQ at all (ie: I don't like the Harman Tgt as a FR goal). That there's a bass boost via Harman is only an assumption - not everyone likes the Harman Tgt FR.

 

[Ezees]

The 'control over drivers' and 'started and stopped on a dime' is not there in reality.
There is no 'taking control' as damping of orthos is mostly membrane tension and acoustic damping not electrical damping.

With a sensitivity of 107dB/V and 30 ohm impedance you will need 4.5V (0.7W) to reach 120dB SPL and 9V (3W) when EQ'ing to Harman.
Your ears won't be happy but can understand that it sounds mighty impressive with bass boost and turned up impressively loud.

For normal 'loud' listening levels you will only need about 1V (2V when EQ'ed to Harman) = 0.1W (0.06A)
The 11.9W 'headroom' is not used nor does it guarantee a 'higher quality' or 'different' power.
All connected low output R amps are simply voltage sources, not power sources.
You do not 'push' power into a driver. You put a varying voltage across it and it draws a current depending on the voltage at that moment.

Those specs mostly apply to dynamics - planars are different. The stronger the magnetic field (via the suspended magnets and the voltage and current going through the traces) the "quicker" and more precise the planar driver will respond (ie: more control). Do you own the Arya and have you tried giving it more power??? Though the Arya can't use and isn't given the whole ~12 watts (or...damage), it did soak up quite a bit of power from the Emo while being volume controlled from the Gustard. I got the sense of the Arya being unfettered by power limitations - and it was a very fun ride. Don't knock it til you've tried it...

Your ears won't be happy but can understand that it sounds mighty impressive with bass boost and turned up impressively loud.

Not at all. There's no bass boost and I don't EQ at all (ie: I don't like the Harman Tgt as a FR goal). That there's a bass boost via Harman is only an assumption - not everyone likes the Harman Tgt FR.

"the drivers can make use of substantially more power"

I mean that many HP amps are between .5W to 4 watts, but the Emo has ~12W on tap @ 32 ohms. The Arya was able to utilize some of that ~12 watts (over and above the ~4 watts of most "powerful" HP amps) to the effect that the Arya altogether sounded uber-dynamic in the bass and tonally richer otherwise. Keep in mind that many Arya owners have noted that the Arya v2 (and older) suffers from a sort of polite and lean bass presentation - but not at all polite or lean when given the extra power, it becomes a beast in the bass.

 

[Bernard23]

Those specs mostly apply to dynamics - planars are different. The stronger the magnetic field (via the suspended magnets and the voltage and current going through the traces) the "quicker" and more precise the planar driver will respond (ie: more control). Do you own the Arya and have you tried giving it more power??? Though the Arya can't use and isn't given the whole ~12 watts (or...damage), it did soak up quite a bit of power from the Emo while being volume controlled from the Gustard. I got the sense of the Arya being unfettered by power limitations - and it was a very fun ride. Don't knock it til you've tried it...

Not at all. There's no bass boost and I don't EQ at all (ie: I don't like the Harman Tgt as a FR goal). That there's a bass boost via Harman is only an assumption - not everyone likes the Harman Tgt FR.

I mean that many HP amps are between .5W to 4 watts, but the Emo has ~12W on tap @ 32 ohms. The Arya was able to utilize some of that ~12 watts (over and above the ~4 watts of most "powerful" HP amps) to the effect that the Arya altogether sounded uber-dynamic in the bass and tonally richer otherwise. Keep in mind that many Arya owners have noted that the Arya v2 (and older) suffers from a sort of polite and lean bass presentation - but not at all polite or lean when given the extra power, it becomes a beast in the bass.

They're not particularly hard to drive, 30ohm isn't particularly low, and sensitivity is "average" so if they're anything like sundara then 4W is hearing damage territory let alone 12. Having extra headroom that isn't actually used cannot somehow be used to improve the sound, and you've already mentioned you don't EQ them so not like you've added a dollop of bass. I'm still confused by the explanation.

 

[solderdude]

Those specs mostly apply to dynamics - planars are different.

Planars behave even more like resistors so those specs apply even MORE so for planars then for dynamics.

Do you own the Arya and have you tried giving it more power???

Not the Arya but Edition XX (similar construction) and several other planars.
As I explained... you cannot 'give' headphones more power. You can apply a higher voltage swing so it will go louder.
When a higher voltage is applied more current will be drawn.

Though the Arya can't use and isn't given the whole ~12 watts (or...damage), it did soak up quite a bit of power from the Emo while being volume controlled from the Gustard.

Soaking power ?
How could you objectively tell ?
Did you monitor the drawn power or the output voltage of the amp ?

I got the sense of the Arya being unfettered by power limitations - and it was a very fun ride. Don't knock it til you've tried it...

You got a sense... unfortunately that is only what it is. A sense.... non-sense.

That there's a bass boost via Harman is only an assumption - not everyone likes the Harman Tgt FR.

When the Arya (or any other hifiman planar) is EQ'ed to the Harman target you can be certain there is a substantial bass boost needed. This is no assumption.
Indeed not everyone likes the Harman target. This is already blatantly obvious when looking at Harman research.

I mean that many HP amps are between .5W to 4 watts, but the Emo has ~12W on tap @ 32 ohms.

Every speaker amp has the same when you connect a headphone to the speaker taps. There is nothing new about that.
In the end ONLY one thing matters and that is how high the voltage swing is across the headphone.
It does not matter if the amp in question can swing to 5V or 20V when the output voltage never reaches levels beyond 4V for instance.

The Arya was able to utilize some of that ~12 watts (over and above the ~4 watts of most "powerful" HP amps)

Assuming you were playing at impressively loud levels (no EQ) and reached 120dB peaks you would be drawing 0.7W. Admittedly this is some of the available 12W. When you would be exceeding 4W (11V voltage swing) your ears would be blasted by 128dB peaks. This is NOT pleasant to listen to and you would literally throw the headphones off. So it is extremely unlikely you would ever exceed 1W.

to the effect that the Arya altogether sounded uber-dynamic in the bass and tonally richer otherwise. Keep in mind that many Arya owners have noted that the Arya v2 (and older) suffers from a sort of polite and lean bass presentation - but not at all polite or lean when given the extra power, it becomes a beast in the bass.

You do not seem to understand the 'power' thing at all.
Power = voltage x current.
An amp supplies the voltage, the resistance of the driver determines the current that goes with it. Voltage x current is drawn power.

I'll quote Scotty... You cannot change the laws of physics.

 

[edahl]

Of course the whole 12 watts can't be used or else I'd go deaf and the drivers would be damaged. It's why I used a preamp in front of the Emo to control overall volume levels. The Arya's planar drivers can make use of substantially more power (current, really) compared to dynamics - and as a result they become different beast altogether. Don't knock it till you've tried it. Which of you is an Arya owner??? Try hooking them up to a speaker amp as an experiment then report back with what you find.

I've used both HEKse and Susvara on any number of amps and as long as there's volume they're equivalent.

As for current, if I understand ohms law correctly it tells you voltage and current are equivalent up to resistance.

 

[Ezees]

They're not particularly hard to drive, 30ohm isn't particularly low, and sensitivity is "average" so if they're anything like sundara then 4W is hearing damage territory let alone 12. Having extra headroom that isn't actually used cannot somehow be used to improve the sound, and you've already mentioned you don't EQ them so not like you've added a dollop of bass. I'm still confused by the explanation.

The Stealth/v3 is substantially easier to drive, but this "review" was of the v2s and that's what we were referring to (35 ohms, at 90db sens). The Stealth/v3s are punchy and full in the bass enough already without the need to drive it with more powerful amps (but it still lights up when driven with good power. The v2s, however, were known to have less than dynamic bass and benefit greatly from as much power as you can give them within reason but over the 4W of many HP amps. The v2s were able to use some of the available power of the Emo's ~12 watts. That available power greatly improved their bass performance - they could no longer be called "wimpy" in the bass as some have noted. If you own the Arya v2, try hooking it up to a ~25 - 50 watts speaker amp to see what I mean.

 

[Ezees]

Planars behave even more like resistors so those specs apply even MORE so for planars then for dynamics.



Not the Arya but Edition XX (similar construction) and several other planars.
As I explained... you cannot 'give' headphones more power. You can apply a higher voltage swing so it will go louder.
When a higher voltage is applied more current will be drawn.



Soaking power ?
How could you objectively tell ?
Did you monitor the drawn power or the output voltage of the amp ?



You got a sense... unfortunately that is only what it is. A sense.... non-sense.



When the Arya (or any other hifiman planar) is EQ'ed to the Harman target you can be certain there is a substantial bass boost needed. This is no assumption.
Indeed not everyone likes the Harman target. This is already blatantly obvious when looking at Harman research.



Every speaker amp has the same when you connect a headphone to the speaker taps. There is nothing new about that.
In the end ONLY one thing matters and that is how high the voltage swing is across the headphone.
It does not matter if the amp in question can swing to 5V or 20V when the output voltage never reaches levels beyond 4V for instance.


Assuming you were playing at impressively loud levels (no EQ) and reached 120dB peaks you would be drawing 0.7W. Admittedly this is some of the available 12W. When you would be exceeding 4W (11V voltage swing) your ears would be blasted by 128dB peaks. This is NOT pleasant to listen to and you would literally throw the headphones off. So it is extremely unlikely you would ever exceed 1W.



You do not seem to understand the 'power' thing at all.
Power = voltage x current.
An amp supplies the voltage, the resistance of the driver determines the current that goes with it. Voltage x current is drawn power.

I'll quote Scotty... You cannot change the laws of physics.

I understand electricity and power pretty well as a retired electrician. You can post all the calculations that you know of but nothing compares to actually listening to the Aryas that way. I stand by my assertions that the Aryas (v2's) become beastly in the bass when driven really well with extra power. If you don't own them and you've never tried driving them with the extra power you have no point of contention b/c - no actual experience with the subject at hand, only measurements on what's accepted (but how do the accepted power requirements sound in comparison to seemingly unlimited headroom?). I don't know the characteristics of your Ed XXs but if they are somewhat wimpy in the bass w/o EQ like the v2s, you could try driving them with a speaker amp as a simple experiment to see if what I'm saying has any merit. Please make sure you use a preamp to protect your ears and the HPs. I turned the Emo up to about ~50 - 75% and modulated the volume via the Gustard's pre in low gain.

 

[solderdude]

Some more calculations for you.

90dB/mW = 104dB/V (35 ohm)
Amir measured 107dB/V (30 ohm) = 92dB/mW

Slightly more sensitive than HD650 but way less efficient (HD650 = 100dB/mW)

I have actually measured the voltages applied to a HD650 which was playing at uncomfortable loud levels and reached peaks of 5.3V
As the sensitivity is closely the same you also will probably not have exceeded 5V = 0.7W

Edition XX:
Impedance: 20Ω
Efficiency: 93dB/mW
Sensitivity: 110dB/V

As you are a retired electrician... When you have a lightbulb that is 6V and 10W and you feed it via a regulated power supply that can provide 20W or one that can provide 1000W yet both supply 6V (and thus the power draw = 10W) does the lightbulb suddenly shine differently ?

 

[Bernard23]

The Stealth/v3 is substantially easier to drive, but this "review" was of the v2s and that's what we were referring to (35 ohms, at 90db sens). The Stealth/v3s are punchy and full in the bass enough already without the need to drive it with more powerful amps (but it still lights up when driven with good power. The v2s, however, were known to have less than dynamic bass and benefit greatly from as much power as you can give them within reason but over the 4W of many HP amps. The v2s were able to use some of the available power of the Emo's ~12 watts. That available power greatly improved their bass performance - they could no longer be called "wimpy" in the bass as some have noted. If you own the Arya v2, try hooking it up to a ~25 - 50 watts speaker amp to see what I mean.

OK, so what quantitative data have you got that could demonstrate this? Please don't tell me it's your ears, as they make poor measurement devices, and are generally unreliable. Have you at least tried running a true blind AB test with different power amps if you don't have access to any lab equipment.

 

[Ezees]

I've used both HEKse and Susvara on any number of amps and as long as there's volume they're equivalent.

As for current, if I understand ohms law correctly it tells you voltage and current are equivalent up to resistance.

Speaker amps? HEKSE and Sus - do they also have somewhat "wimpy" bass like the v2s when not bass shelf EQ'd? Or are they already more balanced and punchy?

 

[Bernard23]

I don't own Aryas yet, but I do have some Sundara. To my ears, they sound pretty much identical whether driven off my phone (lg v50 with UAPP and PEQ installed) to my element 2 / Roon desktop setup at roughly the same volume. The extra power headroom makes no discernible difference to the bass response.

 

[Ezees]

OK, so what quantitative data have you got that could demonstrate this? Please don't tell me it's your ears, as they make poor measurement devices, and are generally unreliable. Have you at least tried running a true blind AB test with different power amps if you don't have access to any lab equipment.

Sorry, don't have the equipment in-hand and I live alone. No worries though, I could easily tell that the Aryas were indeed much more dynamic in the bass - especially at higher volumes. Have you at least tried to experiment to see what happens when they're given the extra power from a speaker amp? It's a mighty fun experiment.

 

[solderdude]

Speaker amps? HEKSE and Sus - do they also have somewhat "wimpy" bass like the v2s when not bass shelf EQ'd? Or are they already more balanced and punchy?

All similar model hifiman have the same frequency response in the bass They only differ above 1kHz.

 

[Ezees]

I don't own Aryas yet, but I do have some Sundara. To my ears, they sound pretty much identical whether driven off my phone (lg v50 with UAPP and PEQ installed) to my element 2 / Roon desktop setup at roughly the same volume. The extra power headroom makes no discernible difference to the bass response.

They're both low powered amps. I'm talking about something totally different - unfettered and unlimited power (for a HP) via a speaker amp. Try it and see (I'm sure you've got a spare amp around your way that's not being used). Dig out your closet and blow off the dust....

 

[Ezees]

All similar model hifiman have the same frequency response below 1kHz. They only differ above 1kHz.

Try out your Ed XX with a spare speaker amp to see what happens to their bass punch....I'm sure you have a no longer used one lying around somewhere. Get back to me and let me know what you find....

 

[solderdude]

First... you would have to make a speaker-tap to 6.3mm adapter. Most power amps have audible noise when connected to the speaker terminals directly.
The output VOLTAGE will be the same when playing equally loud so NOTHING will change.
You can claim it does but it isn't in reality.

It could well be that your hearing (due to age) has become less sensitive and you need 10 to 20dB more power than younger folks.
In that case it would make sense that you need 130dB peaks to get a sensation of playing 'impressively loud' (110dB peaks).
This is the only thing that would make sense that you need that power.
Your profile states you are 53 that's younger than I am so you will have retired at a young age or your actual age is higher than your profile mentions.

 

[edahl]

Speaker amps? HEKSE and Sus - do they also have somewhat "wimpy" bass like the v2s when not bass shelf EQ'd? Or are they already more balanced and punchy?

I've tried the HE6 on a speaker amp. Waste of desk space. It literally doesn't matter.