Help with biwiring logic

[garbulky]

I was sent this link about biwiring. In it they show some spectacular results in what appears to be multiple test tones simply using biwiring. However both the test results and the wording appear very suspect. I'm seeing massive differences in measured results when I don't think such a thing should be the case.
Like here:
Here is a single speaker wire in blue and expected output in yellow

Here it is with biwired speakers in red and the single wire speakers in blue.

This doesn't sound right. Can somebody explain what's going on here? Full article is found here .
https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/

 

[sergeauckland]

I don't understand it either. IM distortion (or indeed Harmonic Distortion) requires non-linearity, and cables are pretty linear.

In spite of their correct statement:-
"Wherever there is non-linearity in a system which carries multiple different frequencies there will be amplitude modulation made up of the sum and difference of the original frequencies and in addition, harmonics of these sum and difference frequencies. "

They present no evidence that a cable has any non-linearity and why it would have, so the Superposition Principle clearly applies. I can't see how there's any effect possible.

By the way, what's the 50Hz spike?

S.

 

[DonH56]

Note the bi-wired measurement shows the current in the tweeter cable and thus bass current is attenuated. If you measured the summed (combined) currents from the amp there should be no change unless the wires are really lossy (bad). So yes, there is less tweeter energy in the bass wire, and less bass energy in the tweeter wire, but it is not the wires that cause (significant) distortion -- it is the amplifier and speaker drivers themselves, neither of which are impacted significantly (if at all) by bi-wiring.

Marketing.

 

[SIY]

That is a remarkably dishonest article. Put aside that they don't actually show where and how the current probes are attached.

Firstly, it is gratifying to see that the bass frequencies have been attenuated in the cable by 35dB which proves that high and low frequencies have been effectively separated into the different cable runs in our bi-wire system. Secondly at and above the typical cross-over frequency of 1 – 2 kHz, the intermodulation distortion has been reduced by up to 30dB.
Now let’s look at the woofer cable (Green). Again, the high frequency component has been reduced in the woofer cable, proving our assertion that the frequencies “know which way to go” in a bi-wire system.

Boom.

edit: Don has faster fingers than I do. GMTA.

 

[Sal1950]

Ever more inventive ways to present BS

 

[Thomas savage]

I really hate seeing this kind and of thing, it’s plain deceitful and extremely underhand.

In the uk you can report this kind of thing.

 

[RayDunzl]

In the uk you can report this kind of thing.

It's a UK link.

https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/

Get on it.

 

[NorthSky]

My speakers have two sets of binding posts; should I biwire them and why?
Or why not?

 

[sergeauckland]

My speakers have two sets of binding posts; should I biwire them and why?
Or why not?

If you want to help the economy by recycling your unwanted cash, then by all means biwire, indeed, why not go the whole hog and biamp, equally pointless but even more expensive.

It won't do any significant harm, and will help the economy, albeit contribute in a small way to Global Warming due to the carbon emissions in creating and distributing the cables.

S

 

[NorthSky]

I have roughly twenty-seven extra pairs of speaker cables sitting on idling inside my drawers. I just don't know what to do with all of them; sending to my Mom, my sister, my daughter, my uncle, my cousin, my local museum, the art gallery, the local music recording studio, ...where?

This thread is about bi-wiring; I don't want to derail it with bi-amping. That's for another thread's tropic.

Also, it's not about economics as we all have extra wires all over our basements and attics. I have cables from the electric power grid company in my area that are two inches thick and about thirty feet long; excellent copper condition. They were given to me when they replaced them by better cables...thicker and about hundred feet long. The professional electric guy was generous, a very nice friendly and generous smart fellow.
But, I just don't know where I can use them; they are thicker than the thickest cables running on top of the roads electrical posts. I can manage to bend them but not without using a heavy duty steel bender tool.
Inside of them there are several copper wires all individually contained in their own jackets. So, I can use them easily to single-wiring, bi-wiring, tri-wiring, quad-wiring, multi-wiring.

What would you do if you was me, Serge?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I have roughly twenty-seven extra pairs of speaker cables sitting on idling inside my drawers. I just don't know what to do with all of them; sending to my Mom, my sister, my daughter, my uncle, my cousin, my local museum, the art gallery, the local music recording studio, ...where?

This thread is about bi-wiring; I don't want to derail it with bi-amping. That's for another thread's tropic.

Also, it's not about economics as we all have extra wires all over our basements and attics. I have cables from the electric power grid company in my area that are two inches thick and about thirty feet long; excellent copper condition. They were given to me when they replaced them by better cables...thicker and about hundred feet long. The professional electric guy was generous, a very nice friendly and generous smart fellow.
But, I just don't know where I can use them; they are thicker than the thickest cables running on top of the roads electrical posts. I can manage to bend them but not without using a heavy duty steel bender tool.
Inside of them there are several copper wires all individually contained in their own jackets. So, I can use them easily to single-wiring, bi-wiring, tri-wiring, quad-wiring, multi-wiring.

What would you do if you was me, Serge?

I suggest buying 27 more pairs of speakers and implementing a 29 channel Dolby Atmos setup.

 

[NorthSky]

See, nothing to do with biwiring. ;-)

 

[sergeauckland]

I have roughly twenty-seven extra pairs of speaker cables sitting on idling inside my drawers. I just don't know what to do with all of them; sending to my Mom, my sister, my daughter, my uncle, my cousin, my local museum, the art gallery, the local music recording studio, ...where?

This thread is about bi-wiring; I don't want to derail it with bi-amping. That's for another thread's tropic.

Also, it's not about economics as we all have extra wires all over our basements and attics. I have cables from the electric power grid company in my area that are two inches thick and about thirty feet long; excellent copper condition. They were given to me when they replaced them by better cables...thicker and about hundred feet long. The professional electric guy was generous, a very nice friendly and generous smart fellow.
But, I just don't know where I can use them; they are thicker than the thickest cables running on top of the roads electrical posts. I can manage to bend them but not without using a heavy duty steel bender tool.
Inside of them there are several copper wires all individually contained in their own jackets. So, I can use them easily to single-wiring, bi-wiring, tri-wiring, quad-wiring, multi-wiring.

What would you do if you was me, Serge?

Sell them for scrap and buy wine?


S

 

[NorthSky]

You should see all the wine already stacked here.

But this subject about biwiring and its beneficial uses, its measurements, its sound, etc., is fascinating to me, very. A very prestigious speaker manufacturer (I have several speakers from that designer) is giving me the go ahead in bi-wiring his/my speakers.

I simply obliged, and I'm bi-wiring them, without extreme prejudice.
And as I said previously; bi-amping is for another thread.
I want strictly stays with the tropic of bi-wiring measurements and sound benefits.
...Exclusively and exquisitely.

I saw the graphs above and have read the explanations.
What I would like now is to see new, true real measurements with a real scientific audio sound meaning. Do we have that or do we need to create them? ...Carefully measure the difference between single-wiring and bi-wiring.

That is all I'm interested in in this thread right here right now.
Everything else is just humor and cheap whiskey, or wining on wines.
I want black on white picture, matter of fact audio scientific analysis.
And what I want I always get. It's only a question of time.
Nothing can stop science advancement, not even nuclear bombs.

 

[Sal1950]

Here is a single speaker wire in blue and expected output in yellow

Tuff crowd here tonight garbulky
I suspect some tampering going on with those measurements - photos
Stick with one run of a good heavy gauge copper and you'll be good to go.
I think Ray might be marketing these.

 

[Wombat]

You should see all the wine already stacked here.

But this subject about biwiring and its beneficial uses, its measurements, its sound, etc., is fascinating to me, very. A very prestigious speaker manufacturer (I have several speakers from that designer) is giving me the go ahead in bi-wiring his/my speakers.

I simply obliged, and I'm bi-wiring them, without extreme prejudice.
And as I said previously; bi-amping is for another thread.
I want strictly stays with the tropic of bi-wiring measurements and sound benefits.
...Exclusively and exquisitely.

I saw the graphs above and have read the explanations.
What I would like now is to see new, true real measurements with a real scientific audio sound meaning. Do we have that or do we need to create them? ...Carefully measure the difference between single-wiring and bi-wiring.

That is all I'm interested in in this thread right here right now.
Everything else is just humor and cheap whiskey, or wining on wines.
I want black on white picture, matter of fact audio scientific analysis.
And what I want I always get. It's only a question of time.
Nothing can stop science advancement, not even nuclear bombs.

There is always one in every crowd:

 

[NorthSky]

Jesus Christ, what was Thomas thinking!

 

[Wombat]

Jesus Christ, what was Thomas thinking!

He was thinking 'I should have listened. Now I have egg on my face'.

 

[NorthSky]

No doubt.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Okay, I'm going with the electricity is like water in a pipe approach.

You have a sprinkler system. A large hose runs to a splitter. One side has a big sprinkler throwing water in an arc of 150 feet covering most of your front lawn. The other side of the splitter has a small sprinkler watering a little spot next to your front door. If you put a flow meter on the beginning of the big hose you read 52 gallons per minute.

The super sprinkler hose company says you'd get more accurate sprinkling if you bi-hose the system. Run a big hose from the main faucet to the 150 foot sprinkler and run a smaller hose to the sprinkler by your front door. They show you a measurement from the single hose system showing 52 gallons per minute. Then they use a flow meter right next to the little sprinkler with the bi-hose system and it reads 2 gallons per minute. They graph them together and tell you , "see the bi hose system is accurately sending your little sprinkler 2 gpm so it isn't perturbed by the big flow in a single hose setup. Voila' success, bi-hosing works."

Of course if they put a flow meter on the big 150 ft sprinkler with bi-hosing, it would read 50 gpm. And 50 gpm and 2 gpm equal the 52 gpm of the single hose system. So in fact, nothing has changed as far as sprinkler performance is concerned.