Help me convert old speakers to actives

[terryforsythe]

I understand why one would model the box, drivers and crossover when designing a passive speaker from zero. But if theres is almost any crossover available in the dsp amp what would still be the purpose of modelling? And if, as in my case,I have the drivers and the box as a given, and any crossover available in dsp, what and why would I still model then?

It is not really necessary if you use the same cabinets and drivers. I measured the drivers in my backyard, on axis and off axis, and used those measurements to help me choose the appropriate crossover frequencies for my drivers.

All of my final tuning I did in my listening room at my listening positions. I have one tuning specifically for serious listening with the speakers pulled 1m into the room and me in my listening chair, and another tuning with the speakers near the wall and adjusted to give a good average response over a larger area.

 

[Sokel]

I understand why one would model the box, drivers and crossover when designing a passive speaker from zero. But if theres is almost any crossover available in the dsp amp what would still be the purpose of modelling? And if, as in my case,I have the drivers and the box as a given, and any crossover available in dsp, what and why would I still model then?

Because it will help you decide if it's worth it to spend the $2k there (and will never get back even a fraction of it if you decide to sell it) or just buy something decent with the same money.

If you model it and the existing configuration show some wild variations in FR or on and off-axis you will know it's not worth it.
You can even upload the results here or in VituixCad's thread for help.

 

[Sokel]

You also have to include the cost (if available) of new tweeters to final resume,the ones shown in the pic are unusable,they seem badly abused.
Same with the lower-left woofer.

Edit:If they look like them,I now saw it's a random pic from the internet.

 

[Salt]

Beware of sokelizing this thread (not personally meant, appreciate Your knowledge, but cool down, this is for"Fun and Learning" as mentioned before, and, btw. investment may be useful for further projects).

 

[Sokel]

Beware of sokelizing this thread (not personally meant, appreciate Your knowledge, but cool down, this is for"Fun and Learning" as mentioned before, and, btw. investment may be useful for further projects).

I just try to protect him from another-half decent built and thrown away money.
I mean ok,it's his money,he can burn them if he like.Fine with me.

I'm all in for starting fresh though,scrap this and have all the fun in the world building new ones.

 

[dualazmak]

I'll have to read on it. I understand Hypex amp has power limiters (so I do not fry drivers with too high level), and the filters once programmed will mean the amp will not send e.g LF to HF. So, I still need capacitors for protection? Why? And will they not screw the sound?

You still need protection capacitors; I highly recommend you to use them.

In my post here #901, I wrote;
At least in my setup, of course I carefully measured and confirmed that the protection capacitors are essentially transparent and "inaudible"; please refer to my posts here #402 and #485 (as well as #258 for subjective comparison).

I use these protection capacitors for protecting my treasure Be-midrange-squawkers, Be-tweeters, and metal horn super-tweeters from possible accidental intrusion of low Fq signal and/or DC.

In the course of intensive DIY of DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier "fully active" audio setup, we have several possibilities of such unexpected "accidents", e.g. mis-configuration/mis-typing in XO/EQ/Group-Delay/Gain settings, mis-connection of line-level and/or SP-high-level cables, unexpected pop due to "excessively buffered" signal intrusion when changed the XLR cables, etc., etc.

I actually experienced a few such cases (even I have been always much careful though) that the protection capacitors actually did their job perfectly protecting my treasure SP drivers. Consequently and fortunately, I never lost/damaged my treasure SP drivers thanks to the protection capacitors.

 

[Reed]

Beocreate | HiFiBerry

A clean solution for certain B&O speakers. Could be used for different brands but it would take work, as would any BYOB powered solution. Newer powered speakers certainly have newer and more powerful amps and crossover. Worth a read though.

 

[Salt]

I just try to protect him from another-half decent built and thrown away money.
I mean ok,it's his money,he can burn them if he like.Fine with me.

I'm all in for starting fresh though,scrap this and have all the fun in the world building new ones.

It's not about half decent built or thrown away money - it's about activating a passive speaker.
Please read the thread from the beginning.

 

[Salt]

Beocreate | HiFiBerry

A clean solution for certain B&O speakers. Could be used for different brands but it would take work, as would any BYOB powered solution. Newer powered speakers certainly have newer and more powerful amps and crossover. Worth a read though.

Please post this under "Advertisement" ....

 

[Sokel]

It's not about half decent built or thrown away money - it's about activating a passive speaker.
Please read the read from the beginning.

I did some reading,yes.
My objection is not about the built but about the speaker as it was new,as if it would buy it right now.
Would it's measurements be decent?Modeling would show that since we don't have any other data.

Then,maybe it would worth replicating the x-over or even improve it.
But without data at hand it's a shot in the dark.

 

[Salt]

You still need protection capacitors; I highly recommend you to use them.

In my post here #901, I wrote;
At least in my setup, of course I carefully measured and confirmed that the protection capacitors are essentially transparent and "inaudible"; please refer to my posts here #402 and #485 (as well as #258 for subjective comparison).

I use these protection capacitors for protecting my treasure Be-midrange-squawkers, Be-tweeters, and metal horn super-tweeters from possible accidental intrusion of low Fq signal and/or DC.

In the course of intensive DIY of DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier "fully active" audio setup, we have several possibilities of such unexpected "accidents", e.g. mis-configuration/mis-typing in XO/EQ/Group-Delay/Gain settings, mis-connection of line-level and/or SP-high-level cables, unexpected pop due to "excessively buffered" signal intrusion when changed the XLR cables, etc., etc.

I actually experienced a few such cases (even I have been always much careful though) that the protection capacitors actually did their job perfectly protecting my treasure SP drivers. Consequently and fortunately, I never lost/damaged my treasure SP drivers thanks to the protection capacitors.

Hypex plate amps do not need ... anything but mains power .... at least with stereo ...

 

[Salt]

I did some reading,yes.
My objection is not about the built but about the speaker as it was new,as if it would buy it right now.
Would it's measurements be decent?Modeling would show that since we don;t have any other data.

Then,maybe it would worth replicating the x-over or even improve it.
But without data at hand it's a shot in the dark.

All points discussed before.
The shot in the dark would be enlightend with an image of the crossover, plan of enclosure and measurement of drivers FR.
After that we go on ....

 

[Sokel]

All points discussed before.
The shot in the dark would be enlightend with an image of the crossover, plan of enclosure and measurement of drivers FR.
After that we go on ....

So modeling,we say the same thing except for some extra measurements.
Agreed about a measuring mic and interface as speaker building is not the same with room measurements,the UMIC1 is not enough for this.
At least that is always needed,despite this speaker or a new one.

 

[Salt]

So modeling,we say the same thing except for some extra measurements.
Agreed about a measuring mic and interface as speaker building is not the same with room measurements,the UMIC1 is not enough for this.
At least that is always needed,despite this speaker or a new one.

Umik1 will do certainly all it is supposed for in this task.

 

[dualazmak]

Hello OP @AlmaAtaKZ,

It will take several weeks for you to carefully read through the entire of my exploration on DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier stereo audio project using rather old/vintage (but still amazingly excellent) 3-way SP system YAMAHA NS-1000 plus L&R subwoofers and super-tweeters. I highly recommend you, however, to read through the thread before you would actually start your "activation" project using your own SP system, since your present plan looks very similar to my "a kind of steady mountain climbing learning expedition".

Nevertheless, if you would like to quickly overview and understand my long (almost 5-year) exploration journey, you can do it by carefully reading through the Hyperlink Index for the project thread; you may jump into the relevant post(s) of your special attention and/or interest.

My recommendations would be "please start and proceed slowly/steadily step-by-step; usually the simpler the better; do not change multiple parameters at once..."

You should not change multiple parameters at once; if you would change multiple parameters at once, then you would easily get into confusion since sometimes pros and cons would cancel-out with each other to give the pseud result of no improvement at all.

As Keith of @Purité Audio kindly wrote here, "You must hear equipment in your own room in your own system, compare unsighted (close your eyes) if there isn’t an immediately apparent difference/improvement. To go further, if there isn’t a significant improvement then don’t change anything, the largest gains are speakers and room."

I summarized and shared my DIY multichannel project policy in my post here including the above points.

 

[Keith_W]

Beware of sokelizing this thread (not personally meant, appreciate Your knowledge, but cool down, this is for"Fun and Learning" as mentioned before, and, btw. investment may be useful for further projects).

After your previous post warning me not to "keith" this thread I decided you are right. The OP did say it's for fun and learning. I do tend to have a "no holds barred" idealistic approach to things with an eye for future expandability and avoiding duplicate purchases. In that context, IMO his plan is fine.

 

[AlmaAtaKZ]

Beocreate | HiFiBerry

A clean solution for certain B&O speakers. Could be used for different brands but it would take work, as would any BYOB powered solution. Newer powered speakers certainly have newer and more powerful amps and crossover. Worth a read though.

Interesting one and cheaper than Hypex, but I do not use Raspberry Pi and prefer an all-in-one that Hypex offers (e.g. power supply is included)

 

[AlmaAtaKZ]

Because it will help you decide if it's worth it to spend the $2k there (and will never get back even a fraction of it if you decide to sell it) or just buy something decent with the same money.

If you model it and the existing configuration show some wild variations in FR or on and off-axis you will know it's not worth it.
You can even upload the results here or in VirtuixCad's thread for help.

The option where I use the 3 existing drivers and just add Hypex is about 1k, most of which is the amps.
Both the amps and Umik I can be re-used in the next project, which can be new drivers in the same cabinet or new drivers in a new box. So I do not see that as a waste. And I could sell the Hypex and the Umik.
I do not see the need for this modelling (for the first project, at least).

 

[AlmaAtaKZ]

You also have to include the cost (if available) of new tweeters to final resume,the ones shown in the pic are unusable,they seem badly abused.
Same with the lower-left woofer.

Edit:If they look like them,I now saw it's a random pic from the internet.

yes, that is a random pic, not my actual pair. My pair is undamaged. The only potential problems with drivers is them being very old (bought in 2001, so almost 25 yo) and them being very cheap range in the first place.

 

[AlmaAtaKZ]

Beware of sokelizing this thread (not personally meant, appreciate Your knowledge, but cool down, this is for"Fun and Learning" as mentioned before, and, btw. investment may be useful for further projects).

I am trying to discern rational messages in every advice. Some may not be relevant now but may still be useful in future.