I didn't get "Supportbox". Anyway I'm going to present a reasonable design w/ JBL's neglected 2020H after you reported success, only to round up the discussion.
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B&C 15DS115
- Thread starter Pieter1267
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Perhaps it depends on how low you want to go. For me, the Faitalpro simulates in 135 litres @ 30 Hz with an active HP LR4 at 22 quite well for a first attempt. F3 is then - not considering room influences - at around 35 Hz, with tame group delay times.
Of course, the full utilisation of Xmax requires power. On the other hand: if you want to utilise Xmax to the full, you probably don't want to be in the same room in a standard-sized living room.....
By the way, I would like to say that I find multi-subs superior. But a well-made monster just doesn't leave me cold.
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OP
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Oh but as far as it isnt clear: i want 2Perhaps it depends on how low you want to go. For me, the Faitalpro simulates in 135 litres @ 30 Hz with an active HP LR4 at 22 quite well for a first attempt. F3 is then - not considering room influences - at around 35 Hz, with tame group delay times.
Of course, the full utilisation of Xmax requires power. On the other hand: if you want to utilise Xmax to the full, you probably don't want to be in the same room in a standard-sized living room.....
By the way, I would like to say that I find multi-subs superior. But a well-made monster just doesn't leave me cold.
And the number 214 came up when i louded up the loudspeaker database file into winisd. I didnt change anything.And either way I only know winisd for 2 days. My vent is 80 cm long. Subbox.pro doesnt know what to do with a 700 cm square port area.
Is anyone able to make me a workable ported design for the B&C 18SW115 and preferably, run into some datasheet with measurements I can make? Somehow I dont seem to make it work.
Audionaut
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Audionaut
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What is the problem?
I really don't understand it.
What material should the housing be made of?
Is there a maximum height / width / depth that you have to observe?
Audionaut
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Try this
www.diyaudioandvideo.com
Speaker Box Volume Calculator / Designer
Determine the dimensions of your speaker from known volume, bracing, port, and driver displacement.
www.diyaudioandvideo.com
OP
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I have to choose a design, or make one or grab one from internet. The cabinet. Im trying winisd but somehow im not getting the calculations to work in subbox.pro. That is obvious me being a novice.
Try this
Speaker Box Volume Calculator / Designer
Determine the dimensions of your speaker from known volume, bracing, port, and driver displacement.
Grazie! Sorry for the misunderstanding.
OP
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No, that's far too general. The woofers usually offer a very good price-performance ratio.
I don't know where you live.
If you can order here, 429 euros is a bargain for one of the best 18-inch speakers.
Faital Pro 18XL1800 - 8 Ohm
Nominal Durchmesser: 18 Zoll / 460 mm Schwingspulen-Durchmesser : 4 Zoll / 100 mm Resonanzfrequenz Fs: 29 Hz Belastbarkeit AES: 1600…www.lautsprecherteile.de
The Faital is off the list because only 8 ohm. Not because of driver but because my Behringer 6000DSP supposed to give 1600 watts per channel @ 8 ohm, but in reality is only near 4 or 500 watt. I need a 4 ohm driver.
Some more considerations nl motor noise on low level after talking to chatgpt
For Low-Level, High-Quality Music (like classical):
| Driver | Quiet Motor | Smooth Low End | Good for Classical? |
|---|---|---|---|
| B&C 18SW115 |  Excellent | Yes | |
| B&C 18TBW100 |  Can be noisy |  Decent | Not ideal |
| FaitalPRO 18XL1600 | Very quiet | Yes | |
| RCF LF18X401 | Quiet | Good | |
| Dayton UM18 (for reference) | Quiet | Deep | |
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Audionaut
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Honestly I can't watch these completely stupid answers without any expertise from ChatGPT anymore.
If you think this will get you there.
Good luck
However, the reality will be that experts will put you back on the right track, which ChatGPT has completely missed.
3ll3d00d
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What constitutes a 3 tick rating from classical? It's so bizarre.
Your info is bad, it will do 1.1kW (give or take a few tenths of a dB) at 8ohm continuous
OP
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Of course its a bit arbitrary, but nonetheless I found on other forums users of other b&c drivers saying the same thing. 1. pro drivers are noisy, have noisy motors, 2. the sw has a much more silent motor compared.
the 6000 is basically 2 x 3000. The 3000 is rated at 900 watts 4 ohm. When tested here
"Seems like the rated power numbers are a fantasy"
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...inger-nx3000d-pro-dsp-amplifier-review.14544/
it barely got to 45% of that number. At 8 ohm it could not jump 300 watt. make of that what you will.
Either way, I was interested in the Faital if they have a 4 ohm version. For 8 ohm, I would need to invest big in a new amp, which defeats the purpose. i might invest in a better amp later, but for subs i want 4 ohm drivers.
3ll3d00d
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The inuke models have been tested extensively multiple times so it's well known how they perform, it's a pair of bridged inuke3000 modules and bridged is not tested in that review. Old manuals had an rms value in the rated power output which was broadly accurate iirc.
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Thing(k) is, ChatGPT replicates foolish oppinions, without considering any further context, or does so at will or not, and again, what is exactly called talking BS, lurking for what sticks.
I was tempted to present that before: -6dB + -6dB = 0dB
No riddle, plain truth as the following. 10thousend watt will give just +3dB of output, compression *not* considered, relative to humble 5 thousend watt. Compression, though, will eat that extra 5k for breakfast. Not the least your ears, as any human's ears, will compress likewise additionally, given the situation of techno music (initial post) in a small (initial post) room, pushing two of those behemoths to their limits. Such +3dB again is barely perceivable as a difference, when a direct comparison is missing, reiterated if at all realizable with just drowning the voicecoil in heat.
In reality, what are we talking about? Do we, via a middle man, discuss with other forums and ChatGPT as a judge on top?
I'm only asking, what else we could do to solve the stated problem (initial post)? I still would suggest to translate the terms expressing some low impact dissatisfaction into technical data. Measurements would help, and if equalization was used to begin with. May come along a bit arrognt, but in the end the o/p would benefit from such clarification, in my humble opinion.
And: what main speakers are use to accomplish the subs ;-) And: what x/over is used ;-)
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Audionaut
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I wrote it, but here once again: Don't let ChatGPT advise you on these specific things. It may have its strengths, but this is undoubtedly not one of them.
Even your description of the situation in the first post of this thread makes me furrow my eyebrows in various places.
You are fascinated by a certain driver and the question arises: why exactly, because it doesn't fit your described purpose perfectly (if I have understood it correctly)
Are you actually looking for a subwoofer or do you want to build two stereo speakers, each with an 18-inch driver?
If you are only looking for one subwoofer: You also write that the subwoofer has too little mid-bass. A subwoofer has no mid-bass at all, otherwise it is incorrectly designed.
In the best case, a subwoofer transmits cleanly from 16Hz to 80Hz, usually 30Hz to 100Hz. This is not mid-bass (approx. 80 - 180 Hz), but a subwoofer transmits from the subcontra-octave (16.35 Hz) or from the contra-octave (32.7 Hz), which corresponds to the beginning of the perceptible hearing range of humans.
As far as I know, only organs, as man-made instruments, are capable of transmitting from the subcontra range, which is why some organ lovers would like to have a subwoofer that transmits from the subcontra. Possible, but difficult to realize.
But: If you are missing mid-bass, this has NOTHING (nothing at all) to do with the subwoofer you are using. Then you need to change something in your main speakers. Maybe EQ and room calibration will help, if not, you need new speakers.
An actively controlled and equalized subwoofer is mainly defined by the cone area and the cone excursion. Multiplying both together results in the displacement volume.
You will hardly find a better or more powerful driver than the Faital Pro 18XL1800 in the pro audio sector. At best this BMS chassis, which is also a whole lot more expensive.
Overview
bmsspeakers.com
Otherwise there is, for example, the Ultimax series from Dayton and some subwoofers from the car audio range, if you don't want to look only at Pro Audio.
However, I wouldn't ask ChatGPT about any of these drivers, because you will always and at best only get an approximate and coincidentally almost correct answer, never a completely correct one.
PS
And, as Heinrich has already written, don't worry about the amplifier power. That will be fine.
MAB
Major Contributor
This table is hogwash from ChatGPT. I can't even begin to tell you how far astray this LLM is leading you. I remind you of how far off the responses it generated were. I'm not even going to look at any more of the output it regurgitated that you are posting, it is so incoherent.The Faital is off the list because only 8 ohm. Not because of driver but because my Behringer 6000DSP supposed to give 1600 watts per channel @ 8 ohm, but in reality is only near 4 or 500 watt. I need a 4 ohm driver.
Some more considerations nl motor noise on low level after talking to chatgpt
For Low-Level, High-Quality Music (like classical):
Driver Quiet Motor Smooth Low End Good for Classical? B&C 18SW115 B&C 18TBW100 FaitalPRO 18XL1600 RCF LF18X401 Dayton UM18 (for reference)
Also, the Behringer will miss it's spec into 4 Ohms by an even larger margin. If you need more power than the Behringer produces, a 4 Ohm sub will barely make one iota of difference.
Sub alignments are actually easy, and you have somehow made this very hard by getting bad advice from ChatGPT, and now ignoring good advice from humans who actually know how to model speakers and can use the modeling tools.
ChatGPT has led you to worry about all the wrong things, made you think all sorts of incorrect thoughts, oddly manipulating you into thinking modeling tools are somehow starting you at the wrong frequency (it's your choice among many starting points), and I think you are about to start arguing with humans at the behest of an LLM.
Evil clown is a correct characterization of how ChatGPT is leading you. Thank goodness the stakes are so low in HiFi. Good luck in any case!
Not to give me guidance, but to try out an AI, I gave Google's Gemini a try. It were some harmless questions about compression drivers and horns. Even then there were some pretty obvious errors in it, so I wouldn't consider using LLM for speaker development at all, although..... Gemini apologised nicely when I pointed out the errors.
But seriously: I can only strongly recommend that you only use an LLM for topics in which you are really well versed. Otherwise the mistakes will go unnoticed.
And the errors that ChatGPT has produced here are......epic.
But seriously: I can only strongly recommend that you only use an LLM for topics in which you are really well versed. Otherwise the mistakes will go unnoticed.
And the errors that ChatGPT has produced here are......epic.
OP
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I make my case designs with a slightly older version of SketchUp Make, but that's after I've already done the case simulations, so I already know the parameters I have to keep to with the case. Prototypes are then needed for the detailed work.
A housing design then looks like this, for example:
In real life like this:
Or here, a small subwoofer:
Two of them receive their drivers:
Without a little school maths, of course, you won't get any further, e.g. you should already know how to calculate a volume.
A housing design then looks like this, for example:
In real life like this:
Or here, a small subwoofer:
Two of them receive their drivers:
Without a little school maths, of course, you won't get any further, e.g. you should already know how to calculate a volume.
Attachments
MAB
Major Contributor
Great point. Need to first learn the modeling, then making the box should be straightforward. Nice job.
