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R3 meta vs Linton measurements.

muad

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I've been playing around with the R3 meta and Lintons and decided to do up some quick MMM measurements just to get an overall idea of how each speaker is behaving in my space. I wrote some observations as some of the measurements explain some of what I heard, and also raises more questions. Also, I have 2 boys (toddlers), so a speaker that works with the grill on is important to me. I have owned 15+ speakers and pretty much only buy speakers with spins lately. I have to say that to me, these are the best I have come across, but for different reasons.

I've listened for months before doing any measurements, the Lintons definitely sounded warmer, fuller and more forgiving, but had some low mid resonances (maybe the entertainment unit is to blame). This along with the 1khz dip made it less intelligible for movie dialogue relative to the R3 meta. The R3 meta is thinner sounding, but man does it have a way of being ultra clear and detailed without being bright, likely attributed to it's very well controlled directivity and narrower dispersion (lower amplitude sidewall reflections). The difference in dispersion I think is why the Lintons sound bigger, but the R3M have way more space between acoustic elements, and imaging is far more defined and in focus. The R3M do a better job at tricking the brain into thinking sounds are extending past the sides of the speaker, especially when the sounds are higher in frequency. Really great with movie sound effects.
PXL_20240525_051711373.jpg


PXL_20240314_194631338~2.jpg


Both speakers sit on a cabinet with just a piece of cork on there, which I think may not be enough, as I find the cabinet really resonates when I have my hand on it. Makes me wonder how much of an effect it's having. I might have to find time to decouple it and remeasure both speakers.


R3 no grill.jpg

Ignoring the room effects below 600hz, the response is incredible. This is with zero effort (placement, no room treatment, no peq) Kind of astounding. The stuff above 100hz is sbir and floor bounce etc, not 100% sure on the audibility of that mess. The 100hz peak and below is a total disaster but more on that later.


R3 grill.jpg

So the above is with the grill on. It doesn't look too bad but I found it audible and was a reason for me to dig out the measurement mic. It didn't sound the same to me.

R3m vs linton.jpg


And here is direct comparison to the Linton. If I saw these measurements, I would have assumed the linton's to be brighter sounding, and less forgiving speaker. I guess the wide mid frequency dip is responsible for it. What I don't understand is how the bass is so different. They're sitting in exactly the same position, woofers at the same height, a few inches different spacing for the port, but the lintons have 10db more bass at 40hz. I mean, it's pretty much a complete bass black hole below 80hz. That doesn't align with their anechoic differences, and there's clearly some room effect going on here I didn't account for. I can't help but think that the entertainment cabinet resonance behaves differently with either speaker resulting in massive cancellations? I know distributed subs will fix some of these issues, and I will eventually get around to building my subs. I just found it interesting.

Other than dispersion, I also wonder if the bass issue is also partly why the the R3M sound thin and don't have that big room filling sound in my space compared to the linton. Male vocals defintely are short an octave. Really doesn't do Johnny Cash or Louie Armstrong justice. Anyone know if a sub helps with male vocals?

Overall the R3Ms are an insanely good speaker, as close to perfect as I have found but I'm probably not going to keep either speaker. If the R3M grill was different, then it would be the one! (As I typed those last couple of sentences I felt like I'm being stupid but I can't quite put my finger on why. I'm sure my wife could point it out though). The Lintons are awesome for music, but I don't love their issue with dialogue for movies. I may play around with some damping material underneath to see if isolating from the cabinet helps, or if it really is just the mid range dip.

Really trying not to buy the mofi 8 or 888
 
This might be helpful:
 
I had both the Lintons and and the R3Ms. Ended up keeping the Lintons. I have 3x LCR and think they do great for movies.
 
Two well designed speakers can sound different. The devil is in the details.
 
the lintons have 10db more bass at 40hz
That's because they just put a louder signal into the room. I wanted to show you a comparision of the spinorama data, but the website seems broken for me.
Anyway, here is the link, maybe it works for you (i submitted a bug report to GitHub):

So lets look at them like this:
Estimated%20In-Room%20Response.webp
Estimated%20In-Room%20Response.jpg


The Lintons put out a lot more SPL below 100Hz, i think that is what you measure.
 
Sorry I haven't got back to this thread, just been really busy with life. I did find some time time to take further measurements that I'll add later, but pretty much any changes (decoupling etc) I made did not make any meaningful difference to the response below 100hz.

@TheBatsEar, I agree that part of the reason for the missing bass is a difference in anechoic output. But it doesn't fully explain the drastic difference between the two speakers in exactly the same position. I included a screenshot to display what I mean. Due to the bass shelf, the R3M is at its worst, 3db lower than the Linton. The in room measurement show a much larger difference, not to mention the lintons also display a much more even bass response below 100hz. It leads me to believe the way both speakers interact with the room are different.

The only things left to explain it is the port placement is different (lintons have two ports that sit lower). I also wonder at what frequencies the enclosure itself acts as a low frequency emitter. Ie does a larger enclosure create a more even in room bass response because it effectively means low frequencies are being emitted from more points in space (conceptually like distributed subs, but obviously not as effective :) )
 

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D
I've been playing around with the R3 meta and Lintons and decided to do up some quick MMM measurements just to get an overall idea of how each speaker is behaving in my space. I wrote some observations as some of the measurements explain some of what I heard, and also raises more questions. Also, I have 2 boys (toddlers), so a speaker that works with the grill on is important to me. I have owned 15+ speakers and pretty much only buy speakers with spins lately. I have to say that to me, these are the best I have come across, but for different reasons.

I've listened for months before doing any measurements, the Lintons definitely sounded warmer, fuller and more forgiving, but had some low mid resonances (maybe the entertainment unit is to blame). This along with the 1khz dip made it less intelligible for movie dialogue relative to the R3 meta. The R3 meta is thinner sounding, but man does it have a way of being ultra clear and detailed without being bright, likely attributed to it's very well controlled directivity and narrower dispersion (lower amplitude sidewall reflections). The difference in dispersion I think is why the Lintons sound bigger, but the R3M have way more space between acoustic elements, and imaging is far more defined and in focus. The R3M do a better job at tricking the brain into thinking sounds are extending past the sides of the speaker, especially when the sounds are higher in frequency. Really great with movie sound effects.
View attachment 371149

View attachment 371150

Both speakers sit on a cabinet with just a piece of cork on there, which I think may not be enough, as I find the cabinet really resonates when I have my hand on it. Makes me wonder how much of an effect it's having. I might have to find time to decouple it and remeasure both speakers.


View attachment 371152
Ignoring the room effects below 600hz, the response is incredible. This is with zero effort (placement, no room treatment, no peq) Kind of astounding. The stuff above 100hz is sbir and floor bounce etc, not 100% sure on the audibility of that mess. The 100hz peak and below is a total disaster but more on that later.


View attachment 371151
So the above is with the grill on. It doesn't look too bad but I found it audible and was a reason for me to dig out the measurement mic. It didn't sound the same to me.

View attachment 371153

And here is direct comparison to the Linton. If I saw these measurements, I would have assumed the linton's to be brighter sounding, and less forgiving speaker. I guess the wide mid frequency dip is responsible for it. What I don't understand is how the bass is so different. They're sitting in exactly the same position, woofers at the same height, a few inches different spacing for the port, but the lintons have 10db more bass at 40hz. I mean, it's pretty much a complete bass black hole below 80hz. That doesn't align with their anechoic differences, and there's clearly some room effect going on here I didn't account for. I can't help but think that the entertainment cabinet resonance behaves differently with either speaker resulting in massive cancellations? I know distributed subs will fix some of these issues, and I will eventually get around to building my subs. I just found it interesting.

Other than dispersion, I also wonder if the bass issue is also partly why the the R3M sound thin and don't have that big room filling sound in my space compared to the linton. Male vocals defintely are short an octave. Really doesn't do Johnny Cash or Louie Armstrong justice. Anyone know if a sub helps with male vocals?

Overall the R3Ms are an insanely good speaker, as close to perfect as I have found but I'm probably not going to keep either speaker. If the R3M grill was different, then it would be the one! (As I typed those last couple of sentences I felt like I'm being stupid but I can't quite put my finger on why. I'm sure my wife could point it out though). The Lintons are awesome for music, but I don't love their issue with dialogue for movies. I may play around with some damping material underneath to see if isolating from the cabinet helps, or if it really is just the mid range dip.

Really trying not to buy the mofi 8 or 888
Do the Lintons sound boomy having them so close to the rear wall?
 
D

Do the Lintons sound boomy having them so close to the rear wall?
Not at all. It sounds just right. Somehow being 6-8" off the wall results in a 4db rise below 100hz, fits the harman preference curve. Overall it's a fairly big room (10ft ceilings and 500cu ft), so it seems to work well in this scenario.
 
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