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Alternative for Klipsch R-41m (Desktop-Speakers with Subwoofer)

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Hello,
I've just bought the Klipsch R-41M for my Desktop. I was using a Teufel Concept E Magnum (2.1) before and I'm amplifying the Klipsch with the Teufel Subwoofer. I've bought the Edifier R1850DB before and was not satisfied, so I ordered the Klipsch. I like them more, but still think that they are not what I really want. (in my living room I've got a full Heco Celan Hometheatre with Heco 800 fronts and 102f as rears).
The Klipsch can make a lot of fun, but they are lacking the punch when it comes to mid-bass and the overexeggerate the highs, as many other listeners agree. The reason I bought them was, that I was able to get them for 149€. (I'm from Germany).
Could you please give me some alternative in the same price-range, which you'd suggest me to test?
When it comes to the inteded use, it's listening to music in near-field surrounding (small room and sitting close to the speakers, subwoofer is under the table). I mostly listen to EDM, house, techno and hardstyle, but also like old tracks from the 80s...so the whole range, except classical music. ^^
Most important to me is the kickbass, which cannot be taken over by the subwoofer completely. (Think of the bass drum in Metallica - Nothing Else Matters, or Modern Talking - You're my heart, you're my sould, for instance)
Unfortunately the popular Pioneers are no longer produced and nearly impossible to get here in Germany.
I don't mind if they're active or passive, but guess that the latter would result in better sound quality as I don't need any additional features.
So, which bookshelf speakers would you suggest me to test? They mustn't cost more than 200€ and should not be significantly bigger than the Klipsch.
Thanks for your tips!
TechnoTroll101
 

staticV3

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Hi @TechnoTroll101! Welcome to ASR.

The reason I bought them was, that I was able to get them for 149€. (I'm from Germany).
Could you please give me some alternative in the same price-range, which you'd suggest me to test?
They mustn't cost more than 200€
Is that 200€ per speaker, or per pair?
 

staticV3

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149€ (~160$) for a pair of the R-41m.
For max 200€, I would buy a pair of Swissonic studio monitors:

I'd ask ASR user @KLang1 if there's a particular model that he'd recommend, as he is involved in the development of Swissonic speakers.

I don't mind if they're active or passive, but guess that the latter would result in better sound quality as I don't need any additional features.
Active speakers will paradoxically give you better sound for your money.
 

Talisman

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It's really hard to get what you want with that budget, honestly to get a nice kicking bass response I would go for a pair of M-Audio BX8 d3s, reviewed by Amir,

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/
forum/index.php?threads/m-audio-bx8-d3-monitor-review.43832/

unfortunately the price goes to around 300 for the pair, but this is certainly performance that outclasses that of your current speakers.
Sorry but I really can't see what you could get for under 200 euros that is significantly better than what you have now (better enough to be worth the change)
https://www.amazon.de/M-Audio-BX8-D...1715162211&sprefix=m+audio+bx8,aps,132&sr=8-1
 
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Unfortunately the Swisssonic Studio Monitors and the M-Audio BX8 d3s don't have a Sub-Out and seem to be active both or can one be used as master and the other as slave?
 

staticV3

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Unfortunately the Swisssonic Studio Monitors and the M-Audio BX8 d3s don't have a Sub-Out and seem to be active both or can one be used as master and the other as slave?
You can use RCA splitters to connect the sub and the monitors in parallel to your stereo source:
611v4Vu1fsL.jpg

For this purpose, use the Teufel's Front L/R inputs.
 
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The Swisssonic A305 for 210€/pair could be an Option. Can you also recommend any passive speakers? Active studio speakers would need two(?) more plugs and additionally I would have to buy some cables to connect everything, including the Subwoofer. As I‘m also watching TV shows and movies sometimes, I would stay 2.1. As I said, I already tested active speakers with and without the subwoofer. To me it Sounds best to have the crossover around 60-80Hz. The edifiers sounded not as clear when it comes to voices but had more bass. The Klipsch are to bright and lacking bass nearly completely but still Sound better to me than the edifiers because there seems to be more details and clarity.
 

staticV3

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The Swisssonic A305 for 210€/pair could be an Option. Can you also recommend any passive speakers?
The best passive bookshelf speakers available New in Germany for around 200€ are probably the Polk ES15 or XT15:


Here's a review of the XT15: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/polk_xt15/

And here's a review of the ES15's bigger brother: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...re-elite-es20-review-bookshelf-speaker.33834/
 
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Thank you for your recommondations. I ordered the Polk ES15 and will compare them with the Klipsch R-41M before I will send them back. I feel like the Klipsch can make fun listening to music, but I wouldn't find it satisfying but exhausting for longer listening. Otherwise the extreme highs will probably destroy my ears so that any other speaker will sound like there wouldn't be enough highs...
 

AnalogSteph

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You definitely weren't kidding:
Definitely bright without EQ (plus "wiggly" highs). Some resonance issues. Drops like a rock below 80 Hz (well, it is only a 4" job after all, and the port seems to be tuned to ~90 Hz). Directivity error in some frequency regions means that those will never be universally right even with EQ, although substantial improvements are expected nonetheless. You can try having some fun coming up with an EQ for them in PEACE.

The larger ES20 ended up measuring decently:
Their wide dispersion should be appreciated on the desktop, and a bit of EQ should tame the highs. The low end should be substantially more satisfying even in the ES15 which is still using a 5.25" woofer.
 
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Hello, I'm back. I've been testing the Polk ES15 for two days now. My impressions (especially in comparison to the Klipsch R-41M):

- What the hell? Klipsch is not crap...it's (sorry to say that) bullshit! Anyone who uses them should get rid of them, if you didn't want to destroy your ears in the long run. Seriously! The Klipsch-sound is totally unnatural and extremely highs-dominant, not to say exhausting! What I can understand, that many like them because they can be "entertaining" for a short period of time because of its dynamics.

- Having said that, I've got to admit that the Polk ES15 definitely sound much better. It's like a different class - comparing the district with ...nah not champions league, let's say premier league. You can listen to them for hours without any fatigue. They do well in every aspect, but that's it! There's nothing special except that there seems to be a lot of bass for its size!

- The problem I have is that I don't find them extraordinary in any kind. Not really entertaining, without any passion. It can't be that my ears are already used to Klipsch and therefore I cannot enjoy them, because in my car I've got an expensive Emphaser-System and in my living room a complete Heco Celan Theatre System.

- For the kind of music (EDM, House, Hardstyle) I primarily listen to, the speakers seem to be "boring"...maybe I need to get used to them, but that's not what I expected and neither what I was looking for. I'm using it with a subwoofer, crossover tested between 50-80Hz - I don't want to go any higher than that.

- The biggest problem to me is that the bass is unprecise, not hard enough - some call it "muddy". I like bass to be very hard and fast, without any hum - the typical kick bass that is supposed to be punchy. Longer bass like you find in rap and hip hop seems to be no problem in comparison. But quick bass is a problem for these speakers.

- Mid-range is totally fine, the highs are a bit exaggerated, but still okay to me.

Conclusion:
I'm not sure whether to keep them or send them back yet. They are really good speakers, but I think I want more clarity/detail. The reason why I'm not sending them back right now is that I guess that these speakers might be the best option in this price category overall. Compared to Klipsch it's like "day and night" but that's nothing special to be fair.

Any suggestions, guys?
 

Talisman

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Hello, I'm back. I've been testing the Polk ES15 for two days now. My impressions (especially in comparison to the Klipsch R-41M):

- What the hell? Klipsch is not crap...it's (sorry to say that) bullshit! Anyone who uses them should get rid of them, if you didn't want to destroy your ears in the long run. Seriously! The Klipsch-sound is totally unnatural and extremely highs-dominant, not to say exhausting! What I can understand, that many like them because they can be "entertaining" for a short period of time because of its dynamics.

- Having said that, I've got to admit that the Polk ES15 definitely sound much better. It's like a different class - comparing the district with ...nah not champions league, let's say premier league. You can listen to them for hours without any fatigue. They do well in every aspect, but that's it! There's nothing special except that there seems to be a lot of bass for its size!

- The problem I have is that I don't find them extraordinary in any kind. Not really entertaining, without any passion. It can't be that my ears are already used to Klipsch and therefore I cannot enjoy them, because in my car I've got an expensive Emphaser-System and in my living room a complete Heco Celan Theatre System.

- For the kind of music (EDM, House, Hardstyle) I primarily listen to, the speakers seem to be "boring"...maybe I need to get used to them, but that's not what I expected and neither what I was looking for. I'm using it with a subwoofer, crossover tested between 50-80Hz - I don't want to go any higher than that.

- The biggest problem to me is that the bass is unprecise, not hard enough - some call it "muddy". I like bass to be very hard and fast, without any hum - the typical kick bass that is supposed to be punchy. Longer bass like you find in rap and hip hop seems to be no problem in comparison. But quick bass is a problem for these speakers.

- Mid-range is totally fine, the highs are a bit exaggerated, but still okay to me.

Conclusion:
I'm not sure whether to keep them or send them back yet. They are really good speakers, but I think I want more clarity/detail. The reason why I'm not sending them back right now is that I guess that these speakers might be the best option in this price category overall. Compared to Klipsch it's like "day and night" but that's nothing special to be fair.

Any suggestions, guys?
I advise you to take some time calmly to get used to the sound of the new speakers which is completely different from those of the Klipsch ones. Also because in any case with your budget there isn't much better around, you should probably look for something on the It used to have something more performant on these figures
 
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I guess I've just found out another problem: Those speakers are not ideal for nearfield-listening. As said before I'm using them at my desktop which means that I've got only 80-100cm distance to the speakers. The speakers themselves are placed directly against the wall, I guess that increased the hum and negatively influences the kickbass that I'm looking for. To check that I set the crossover to 200Hz and voilá! Kickbass is there again. It would be a shame to use the speakers like that. Any suggestions, again? ^^
 

Talisman

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I guess I've just found out another problem: Those speakers are not ideal for nearfield-listening. As said before I'm using them at my desktop which means that I've got only 80-100cm distance to the speakers. The speakers themselves are placed directly against the wall, I guess that increased the hum and negatively influences the kickbass that I'm looking for. To check that I set the crossover to 200Hz and voilá! Kickbass is there again. It would be a shame to use the speakers like that. Any suggestions, again? ^^
The "kick bass" is nothing more than the "bang of the mid-low range", it generally comes from the midwoofers or small woofers (like the 4' or 5') and it is all that the Klipsch R41M can do. But it is only the medium kick with the absence of the low response, unless this is exactly the case in the song, in which case even the largest woofers will not reproduce that "kick".
I think you've gotten used to listening to songs with a certain signature that heavily cuts the low frequencies, and now the sound seems "bloated" to you.
 

staticV3

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It may well be bloated due to room modes, which can be fixed using room correction.
 
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The "kick bass" is nothing more than the "bang of the mid-low range", it generally comes from the midwoofers or small woofers (like the 4' or 5') and it is all that the Klipsch R41M can do. But it is only the medium kick with the absence of the low response, unless this is exactly the case in the song, in which case even the largest woofers will not reproduce that "kick".
I think you've gotten used to listening to songs with a certain signature that heavily cuts the low frequencies, and now the sound seems "bloated" to you.
Most of the time I'm listening to (loud) music in my car which has a complete audio-system by Emphaser including a DSP. In my living room I use the Heco System mostly for movies but also for backround music (internet radio) in a rather low volume. The Klipsch I only used for two days! So my ears won't be the "problem". Kickbass you can hear quite well in many songs by stereoact (popular DJ in Germany), for instance. Check out his remix of "sempre sempre" if you want.
 
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I kept the Polk ES15 - the longer I listen to them, the more I like them. But I've got to admit that the loudspeakers I'm daily comparing them with is quite unfair: the Heco Celan 800 as well as the Emphaser-Carsystem is faaaar more expensive. I got pair of Polk ES15 for 200€...you would not even get a single Heco Celan 102f (Rear) or a tweeter of my Emphaser-System for that money. I'm just wondering, if it would make a big difference to buy an amp instead of using the integrated amp of my Teufel Subwoofer. Any by the way: Is there a good equalizer for Windows 11 you can recommend for testing purpose?
 
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Another update: I'm using the Peace Equalizer, interface Equalizer APO an used the same setting amirm recommened in his review.
I'm really satisfied with the Polk ES15 in combination with my subwoofer (Teufel Concept E Magnum). It makes fun listening to my favourite music, but I found out, that they work much better if I sit a bit more away from them. If you plan to use them as monitor speakers on your desk, I would not recommend them because then you lose a lot of bass and stage. Besides that I'm glad I kept them and returned the Klipsch R-41M.
 
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