HDMI Audio to USB Conversion?

[gvl]

Please forgive our attempts to save you some money that you could spend on things you really need. The only (questionable) use case for I2S these days is to be able to play DSD1024 on some DACs, and the D90 is not one of them. For all others formats USB is the way to go for PC usage.

 

[fabien32]

Please forgive our attempts to save you some money that you could spend on things you really need. The only (questionable) use case for I2S these days is to be able to play DSD1024 on some DACs, and the D90 is not one of them. For all others formats USB is the way to go for PC usage.

I want to experiment myself and not only saying that things are that way because someone else said so. And the only way i know to really understand anything is, to do it yourself.

 

[gvl]

I want to experiment myself and not only saying that things are that way because someone else said so. And the only way i know to really understand anything is, to do it yourself.

Not always. Sometimes it pays off to understand how things work even on a higher level. The converter I mentioned will take a USB input and convert it to I2S. This is basically what already happens inside the DAC itself, so a piece of hardware you're adding is redundant and prone to issues. It doesn't solve any problems in your situation, but may create new ones. The logical question is, why bother?

 

[fabien32]

Not always. Sometimes it pays off to understand how things work even on a higher level. The converter I mentioned will take a USB input and convert it to I2S. This is basically what already happens inside the DAC itself, so a piece of hardware you're adding is redundant and prone to issues. It doesn't solve any problems in your situation, but may create new ones. The logical question is, why bother?

First of all the solution that was given is not necessary the right one. I'm trying to find a way use the iis without any conversion what so ever. Second it is always better to experiment things on your own(when possible). That doesn't mean one should inform himself with professional findings. That said, the more I talk to you guys the more I want to experiment this myself. No offense but the fact that I asked and ask again for help on the how, and keep getting answers that I shouldn't, just have me think you guys don't know how yourself. The matrix doesn't look like what I'm looking for. I'm going to keep looking for a way to use a DSD to HDMI without any conversion. If someone know how, please share. Thanks

 

[somebodyelse]

On the PC end you'll need an OS, drivers and player software that support bitstreaming (aka passthrough) for HDMI audio. I've seen varying reports on whether these need to explicitly support DSD, or whether the problem is the receiving end not announcing DSD support in its EDID data. I don't have anything capable of receiving it, so I can't try it. Jriver claims to support bitstreaming DSD if the rest of the chain is up to the job.

 

[fabien32]

On the PC end you'll need an OS, drivers and player software that support bitstreaming (aka passthrough) for HDMI audio. I've seen varying reports on whether these need to explicitly support DSD, or whether the problem is the receiving end not announcing DSD support in its EDID data. I don't have anything capable of receiving it, so I can't try it. Jriver claims to support bitstreaming DSD if the rest of the chain is up to the job.

finally something I can work with.
So if i install jriver and configure it properly than it should work, or i still need a module of some sort to bypass Sony's protection?

 

[somebodyelse]

finally something I can work with.
So if i install jriver and configure it properly than it should work, or i still need a module of some sort to bypass Sony's protection?

I'd say 'might' rather than 'should' given the other variables, and the trouble people often have getting all the details in the chain right. AFAIK Sony's protection for DSD was limited to making it hard to extract files from the SACDs, but I could be wrong - it's the same company that silently installed a rootkit on people's PCs for 'copyright protection', introducing a security hole and violating someone else's software copyright in the process, then claimed it wasn't a problem because "most people don't know what a rootkit is."

 

[linuxfan]

fabien32, I just revisited this thread now, and I suspect there is some confusion and cross-purpose discussion happening. It's really important to understand that there are 2 distinctly different HDMI interfaces being discussed in this thread:

i) conventional HDMI video-audio interface, in which the digital video and audio signals are processed by an HDMI controller chip. An extension of this standard is "DSD-over-HDMI" - which encrypts DSD data (yes, this is I2S) within conventional HDMI multiplexing methods. I understand that quite a number of SACD players have this feature, but the only receiving devices commercially available which support this feature are Home Theatre Receivers (no DAC's) and even then, only a modest number of HTR's.
The downside of this method is that the digital clocking of HDMI chips yields relatively high jitter.

ii) I2S-over-HDMI interface - This is what Paul McGowan is talking about! There is no digital processing involved - the (weak) I2S signal is amplified by an LVDS transmitter, then connected to an HDMI jack. This is where confusion often arises - "HDMI" is involved only for its physical connector! There is no HDMI-associated processing involved.
This can be a very high quality, low jitter interface, indeed.
The downside is that this interface is quite rare, and your choice of hardware is very limited. Yes, Paul McGowan's "PerfectWave transport" supports I2S-over-HDMI - but it only plays CD and DVD discs - not SACD! There's no off-the-shelf SACD player available which supports I2S-over-HDMI. DSD-over-HDMI, sure, but not I2S-over-HDMI. This is for (Sony) legal/licensing reasons, not technical reasons.
Examples of other playback devices which offer direct I2S output (and optional I2S-to-HDMI) are the Raspberry Pi computer, and a convential PC with Pink Faun I2S Bridge.

So you see that the 2nd option represents (potentially) high end digital audio, but the 1st option not so much.

And the HDMI to I2S adapter that I mentioned in the third post of this forum thread is a kludgey way of adapting the 1st option to the 2nd option. I would only do this if you are determined to play your music from an SACD player. For computer playback, not worth the trouble.

 

[linuxfan]

I should add that while Paul McGowan's YouTube presentation is partly correct, it's not entirely correct; direct I2S output devices will not necessarily outperform USB output devices in all situations. There are good and bad implementations of direct I2S output, and there are good and bad implementations of USB output devices.
Direct I2S output from a Raspberry Pi, for example, has relatively high jitter, but there are reclocking devices available for the Pi which raise the jitter performance to a greatly improved level.
Similarly, there are good, bad, and mediocre USB interfaces. I understand that the USB interface in your D90 DAC is of a high calibre.

 

[fabien32]

I have a Raspberry, a really good PC, a D90 and a lot of time on my hands

 

[linuxfan]

Your RPi and PC are both ready to go with USB audio connection to your D90, including DSD support when properly configured.

For the PC use Jriver or foobar2000 (free).
Jriver DSD configuration explained at the bottom of this page -
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC32/index2.html
foobar2000 DSD configuration explained here -
https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/foobar-configuration-for-dsd/

For the RPi use Volumio or Moode.

Then later if you really want to try direct I2S from the RPi to your D90 DAC, attach this I2S-to-HDMI module -
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dac-...-transmitter-i2s-dsd-dop-to-hdmi-p-13982.html
But remember, you will be passing a relatively jittery I2S signal with this method. I think the designer of that module has a more expensive version which includes a reclocking circuit, but I can't find a link right now.

 

[fabien32]

Your RPi and PC are both ready to go with USB audio connection to your D90, including DSD support when properly configured.

For the PC use Jriver or foobar2000 (free).
Jriver DSD configuration explained at the bottom of this page -
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/DAC32/index2.html
foobar2000 DSD configuration explained here -
https://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/foobar-configuration-for-dsd/

For the RPi use Volumio or Moode.

Then later if you really want to try direct I2S from the RPi to your D90 DAC, attach this I2S-to-HDMI module -
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dac-...-transmitter-i2s-dsd-dop-to-hdmi-p-13982.html
But remember, you will be passing a relatively jittery I2S signal with this method. I think the designer of that module has a more expensive version which includes a reclocking circuit, but I can't find a link right now.

someone told me that should be better, what do you think?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173027102004

 

[linuxfan]

That "someone" was me, in post #3, but it's the kludgey solution for SACD players, as I tried to explain in post #48.
It's the wrong device for what we're discussing here.

 

[fabien32]

That "someone" was me, in post #3, but it's the kludgey solution for SACD players, as I tried to explain in post #48.
It's the wrong device for what we're discussing here.

Ok, thanks for the clarification

 

[gvl]

No offense but the fact that I asked and ask again for help on the how, and keep getting answers that I shouldn't, just have me think you guys don't know how yourself.

I gave you all the info you need in post #39.

 

[gvl]

someone told me that should be better, what do you think?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173027102004

This is not what you want, there is no reason to send audio over HDMI on PC.

 

[fabien32]

This is not what you want, there is no reason to send audio over HDMI on PC.

The all point of what I am doing is not to take anyone word for anything. It's not that I can't learn from others, but I really think that playing with things give me a better understanding of life. So I'm going to try all kind of things. Thank you for the suggestions but i don't think you guys understand where I'm coming from. I'm not trying to save money or to get the easiest or best results. I'm trying to understand the subject better. And to accept someone else finding is not enough for me.

 

[gvl]

You just don't get it, that board from eBay is not going to work or it'll work poorly. For what you're trying to do get Matrix X-SPDIF 2 or similar and a short HDMI cable, the shorter the better. What else do you want to know?

 

[fabien32]

You just don't get it, that board from eBay is not going to work or it'll work poorly. For what you're trying to do get Matrix X-SPDIF 2 or similar and a short HDMI cable, the shorter the better. What else do you want to know?

ok

 

[fabien32]

To all of you who where part of that conversation, I think you are going to find this interesting. So after all i decided

to go and buy that HDMI to iis on AliExpress for 30$. I contacted the HDMI out from my laptop to the card and the iis out to the iis in, on the d90mqa. And the sound is amazing! I works like a charm.