Foobar DSD Problem with Interference Noises

[Dr.Ames]

Hello everyone,


Unfortunately, I have been having a very annoying and probably not easy to solve problem with the native playback of DSD files via Foobar and my external DAC (Pre Box S2 Digital) connected via USB. My configuration:

Windows 11
Asus Strix X570-E board
AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT
Foobar 64 bit current version
foo_input_sacd Plugin 1.5.11 (current version)
foo_out_asio+dsd 0.38. (current version)
Project ASIO USB driver 5.68.0 (current version)

With this configuration DSD files can be played back natively without DOP or conversion to PCM. This actually works very well. However, I always hear slight cracking noises, almost like a minimal dropout. Basically, I have configured everything as recommended by the manufacturer and various forums. My standard sound is not set to the ASIO driver and all USB energy saving modes are switched off, as are the system sounds. The ASIO buffer of the project driver is set to "safe" and maximum buffer size. I have already tested everything possible in Foobar. I had also tested the original ASIO plugin instead of the foo_out_asio, but heard the same errors there. I experimented with the output buffer size and thought that setting it to the maximum size would solve the problem, but that was also a fallacy. The controller is currently set to 2000 ms.

But what really surprised me - I experimented with the foo_dsd_processor and set it so that all 44.1 khz files are upsampled to DSD256 and I don't hear a single error! Maybe because DOP is used automatically? At least that's what I understood from the URL "https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.co...-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/".
Incidentally, I bought JRIVER some time ago and never heard a single glitch during DSD playback. But I like Foobar in my setup so much better than the JRIVER software.
Do any of you have any ideas what else I could do - I think it really is a complex problem.

 

[Sokel]

Set foobar buffer to 100-120ms.
For some strange reason high rate DSD doesn't like large buffers.

(long/bad cables,digital volume control on DAC and foobar,including pre-amp feature,etc are all out without saying,right? )

 

[Dr.Ames]

Hello and thank you for the tip - but unfortunately this does not work at all in my configuration. If I set the total buffer in Foobar to 120ms, all I hear is noise. All tone control is switched off and a high-quality short Audioquest USB cable establishes the connection between PC and DAC.

 

[JayGilb]

Hello and thank you for the tip - but unfortunately this does not work at all in my configuration. If I set the total buffer in Foobar to 120ms, all I hear is noise. All tone control is switched off and a high-quality short Audioquest USB cable establishes the connection between PC and DAC.

Has you hardware changed (PC and DAC) between when you tried Jriver and Foobar ?

 

[Dr.Ames]

No, the hardware is completely identical. However, I have already achieved an improvement with Foobar by switching off all Windows system sounds and also activating the "Do Not Disturb" mode in Windows 11. Now I can also hear longer passages in Foobar without interference. However, I have never had a single problem in JRIVER and I have also activated direct DSD playback there.

 

[DVDdoug]

My standard sound is not set to the ASIO driver

From what I found, the Pre Box doesn't support ASIO anyway... It should work with ASIO4ALL, but that's not "real" ASIO and it might not be any better than the standard Windows drivers.

It MIGHT be "something else" interrupting the audio, although I don't know why it would be better with JRIVER or when up-sampling. Your operating system is always multitasking & interrupting, even when you're only running one application. Whatever it is doesn't have to be using a lot of CPU time, it just has to "hog" the system for too long and you get buffer underflow (or buffer overflow when recording).

Usually a bigger buffer helps, but there is a FREE online book about optimizing your computer for audio called Glitch Free about optimizing your computer for audio.

 

[krabapple]

Hello everyone,


Unfortunately, I have been having a very annoying and probably not easy to solve problem with the native playback of DSD files via Foobar and my external DAC (Pre Box S2 Digital) connected via USB. My configuration:

Windows 11
Asus Strix X570-E board
AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT
Foobar 64 bit current version
foo_input_sacd Plugin 1.5.11 (current version)
foo_out_asio+dsd 0.38. (current version)
Project ASIO USB driver 5.68.0 (current version)

With this configuration DSD files can be played back natively without DOP or conversion to PCM. This actually works very well. However, I always hear slight cracking noises, almost like a minimal dropout. Basically, I have configured everything as recommended by the manufacturer and various forums. My standard sound is not set to the ASIO driver and all USB energy saving modes are switched off, as are the system sounds. The ASIO buffer of the project driver is set to "safe" and maximum buffer size. I have already tested everything possible in Foobar. I had also tested the original ASIO plugin instead of the foo_out_asio, but heard the same errors there. I experimented with the output buffer size and thought that setting it to the maximum size would solve the problem, but that was also a fallacy. The controller is currently set to 2000 ms.

But what really surprised me - I experimented with the foo_dsd_processor and set it so that all 44.1 khz files are upsampled to DSD256 and I don't hear a single error! Maybe because DOP is used automatically? At least that's what I understood from the URL "https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.co...-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/".
Incidentally, I bought JRIVER some time ago and never heard a single glitch during DSD playback. But I like Foobar in my setup so much better than the JRIVER software.
Do any of you have any ideas what else I could do - I think it really is a complex problem.

shouldn't make a difference, but try WASAPI instead of ASIO.

 

[Dr.Ames]

.........
Usually a bigger buffer helps, but there is a FREE online book about optimizing your computer for audio called Glitch Free about optimizing your computer for audio.

Thank you very much - I will have a look at this, looks very promising.

 

[Dr.Ames]

shouldn't make a difference, but try WASAPI instead of ASIO.

Thank you very much - I will test this, but then I can no longer play DSD files natively and would have to convert them to PCM in the SACD plugin, or am I wrong?

 

[johny_2000]

Here's what RME said on the matter:
"The change between PCM and DSD causes a low volume click noise. For optimized sound and fidelity, the ADI-2/4 Pro SE does not use any lossy analog volume control, hence can't suppress the DAC's click noise. You may notice clicks and cracks at the title change quite often with DSD, even when the next title has the exact same sample rate. This is caused by the 1-bit format, which, unlike PCM, requires absolute silence and DC freedom at the beginning and end of a title, so that the transition as required by the 1-bit stream does not represent a random signal, which can sound like a click or crack. Unfortunately, many freely available tracks are not 'clean' at the beginning and the end. If these are played back one after the other by player software, the ADI-2 DAC's level meters show that the noise to be heard does not originate from the ADI-2/4 Pro, but is presented to the unit as a signal to be played. The level meters are in the digital domain before the DAC, so proof of a faulty input signal is easy."

 

[LGD_]

Hello everyone,


Unfortunately, I have been having a very annoying and probably not easy to solve problem with the native playback of DSD files via Foobar and my external DAC (Pre Box S2 Digital) connected via USB. My configuration:

Windows 11
Asus Strix X570-E board
AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT
Foobar 64 bit current version
foo_input_sacd Plugin 1.5.11 (current version)
foo_out_asio+dsd 0.38. (current version)
Project ASIO USB driver 5.68.0 (current version)

With this configuration DSD files can be played back natively without DOP or conversion to PCM. This actually works very well. However, I always hear slight cracking noises, almost like a minimal dropout. Basically, I have configured everything as recommended by the manufacturer and various forums. My standard sound is not set to the ASIO driver and all USB energy saving modes are switched off, as are the system sounds. The ASIO buffer of the project driver is set to "safe" and maximum buffer size. I have already tested everything possible in Foobar. I had also tested the original ASIO plugin instead of the foo_out_asio, but heard the same errors there. I experimented with the output buffer size and thought that setting it to the maximum size would solve the problem, but that was also a fallacy. The controller is currently set to 2000 ms.

But what really surprised me - I experimented with the foo_dsd_processor and set it so that all 44.1 khz files are upsampled to DSD256 and I don't hear a single error! Maybe because DOP is used automatically? At least that's what I understood from the URL "https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.co...-part-3-new-experimental-sacd-plugin-v-0-9-x/".
Incidentally, I bought JRIVER some time ago and never heard a single glitch during DSD playback. But I like Foobar in my setup so much better than the JRIVER software.
Do any of you have any ideas what else I could do - I think it really is a complex problem.

Hello,
Just saw your post,
Long-time foobar user here, and I use the DSD Processor to upconvert all to DSD256 .
That has always worked well, but DSD512 was always unuseable -- pops, noise, etc.
(I also found that foo_dsd_asio worked fine up to DSD512 - I dunno what's different there)

Then recently I tried a filter that I made, on the USB cable thinking that maybe noise from the PC was coming down the cable and upsetting the DAC at DSD512.
That worked! -- Totally cleaned up DSD512 - no noise or pops, it sounds great.,

I wound the USB cable (about 4ft) to the DAC around a 1.4 inch ferrite toroid, to kill whatever noise might be coming from the PC.
Wind as many turns as possible around it, and locate your DAC right at the PC with a short as possible lead from the toroid to the DAC, and also short end to the PC.

I just used a random core that I had on-hand, but this core should be OK:
https://www.amazon.com/FT-240-43-FT240-43-Ferrite-Toroid-Material/dp/B07Y6NQRGF/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1

No guarantees, but maybe a filter might help you - should be worth $12 to give it a try.

EDIT: To the OP: Just noticed that you're using 64 bit foobar, and Win 11. That's unknown territory to me, I use 32 bit foobar and Win 10.
Since Maxim wrote these plugins for 32 bit foobar, perhaps they're not yet tested for 64 bit ??
I've had problems with the plugins just using the more recent versions of 32 bit foobar, and had to go back to an older version to clear them up.
Info is scarce to nonexistant for these plugins, you just have to beat on it until you reach nirvana - ask me how I know .

Good luck,

 

[krabapple]

The deeper question is: why do this ('upconverting') in the first place?

 

[LGD_]

The deeper question is: why do this ('upconverting') in the first place?

Sigh....
I get the all the time. If you really want to know, please read my old post:

SMSL D-6 DAC Review

D-6 'PrD' is DSD pass through (as per D-6 manual) and this activates DSDD mode of the DAC chip, shown below from AK4493S block diagram. DSD Direct mode passes the DAC chip DSP (volume control and modulator) and goes straight to switched capacitor filters and through to analogue output. I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[krabapple]

Sigh....
I get the all the time. If you really want to know, please read my old post:

SMSL D-6 DAC Review

D-6 'PrD' is DSD pass through (as per D-6 manual) and this activates DSDD mode of the DAC chip, shown below from AK4493S block diagram. DSD Direct mode passes the DAC chip DSP (volume control and modulator) and goes straight to switched capacitor filters and through to analogue output. I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Quite amusing. You say 'it's real' but the evidence is....your sighted anecdote and a DAC maker's marketing text.

I don't see anything in Amir's review that suggests such 'upconverting' is either necessarily or desirable.

This being ASR, how about, say, some measurements and blind tests that demonstrate one or the other?

 

[LGD_]

Quite amusing. You say 'it's real' but the evidence is....your sighted anecdote and a DAC maker's marketing text.

I don't see anything in Amir's review that suggests such 'upconverting' is either necessarily or desirable.

This being ASR, how about, say, some measurements and blind tests that demonstrate one or the other?

Glad I amused you...
It works for me, and others,
Everything I have in say about it is in my "sighted anecode". (did you read it, and the links in there ?)
So, snicker away,, I'll just be enjoying the music.
Cheers...