Has DSP turned us into audio neurotics? [rant]

[mhardy6647]

Through most of the 1970s, at least for electronics, the upgrade bug was driven primarily by size, weight, and number of knobs, buttons, switches, and meters/displays) rather than the underlying technology.

 

[Descartes]

Or perhaps, it will get pissed that you keep asking for another optimization and find a way to kill you

- Rich

?

 

[Digital_Thor]

To me, the DSP merely replace the classic passive filter. I do not correct for the room at all - above around 500Hz. The DSP is just a filter, that makes the speaker perform like what we almost always see from some of the better speakers tested with the Klippel tester.
Below around 500Hz I do use a bit of PEQ's to counter the excess energy, which both woofers and subwoofers in unison unavoidably creates in any room. And for some reason, I never found either MSO or Dirac, to really fit my bill. The slow but steady manual version always seem to do it just fine for me - so far

I never felt neurotic - I just had to learn how to adjust the damn thing correctly - obeying the unbendable rules of nature. It's always fun to fiddle... but I think I found a healthy level of enjoyment now

 

[MattHooper]

Certainly a lot of strong opinions there!

Unless it's a recording control room, or another room with a lot of acoustic treatment, most rooms are useless for analytical listening (though perhaps fine for just enjoying music).

That sounds highly exaggerated to me. What would you mean by “ analytical listening”?

If you mean apprehend the details on a recording, those can be apprehended quite easily in any number of set ups. First remember that the science says our brains are adept at “ hearing through the acoustics of our room” to the sound coming from the speaker - above 300hz or so IIRC - were plenty of the recorded information exists.

At this point, I have a listening room which employs acoustic treatment.

But even before I did that I was hearing essentially all the recorded detail in recordings, in a perfectly “ normal” room.
(I am a former musician with plenty of musician friends, so I’ve heard the same recordings and studios that I would play back in my home systems. Essentially, all the detail heard in the studio was heard in my listening room.

 

[DLS79]

It can not make "poorly-performing speakers" sound like well-designed speakers. Since it can, as you mention, make "poorly-performing speakers APPEAR to be performing like a well-designed speakers", and this incorrect notion is pushed by "automatic DSP vendors", how is that not "bad"?

It depends what any given individual considers horrible, poor, acceptable, good, excellent etc.

For example read through the comments on the Adam A4V review. It has a none trivial port resonance issue at 1khz, but Amirm still recommended it because it could be minimized with EQ. However some people ,lost their minds and posted all kinds of ridiculousness.

 

[UprightCitizen]

I think what we'll end up with is not perfection but rather soulless homogeneity. It will be very, very good in quality -- but more or less bereft of character.

PS There's a pair of AR2ax in the basement even as I type this.

Character should be in the recordings, not the system.

 

[DLS79]

Character should be in the recordings, not the system.

I 100% agree with you, but I can tell you a metric crap ton of people don't! Hence why they still make tube amps!

 

[RayDunzl]

Has DSP turned us into audio neurotics?

Not here.

After some initial play time it's been pretty much set and forget to me.

Tune the "system" and let the recordings fall where they may.

 

[Robin L]

Through most of the 1970s, at least for electronics, the upgrade bug was driven primarily by size, weight, and number of knobs, buttons, switches, and meters/displays) rather than the underlying technology.

While it is true that 1970s electronics had a greater emphasis on switches and knobs, your display of Marantz receivers from the 1970s indicates an even more important trend at the time - a massive increase in available power.

 

[MattHooper]

Character should be in the recordings, not the system.

Unless you enjoy the character of different sound systems.

 

[Snarfie]

Or get better speakers. The problem is above Schroeder you don't know what you are measuring so in essence "driving blind". To me it seems like above Schroeder DSP should be done "by ear" as there is not going to be reliable correlations between measurements and what you hear.

Thought that the Schroeder correction at ASR is by far used to my suprise almost 35% are using full correction. Just 57% is using the Schroeder correction
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-we-correct-to-schroder-or-full-range.46582/

 

[DLS79]

Unless you enjoy the character of different sound systems.

I hate to say it, but you could DSP any character you want.

 

[Tell]

I'm using DSP as a tool to make something good sounding sound even better, I don't see what's neurotic about that?

 

[Sal1950]

Also, my speakers sound good (acceptable balanced frequency response) at different locations in the room, but moving the mic even small amounts shows how much the measured response changes, I definitely can’t hear as much a difference as the measurements would lead me to believe.

You likely could if those changes were isolated in time and heard in short A - B switching listening sections.
You'd be surprised at how small a change in loudness can be detected when listened to under controlled conditions.

 

[restorer-john]

While it is true that 1970s electronics had a greater emphasis on switches and knobs, your display of Marantz receivers from the 1970s indicates an even more important trend at the time - a massive increase in available power.

Using that 77/78 range is not a good example of whatever point he's trying to make.

 

[Sal1950]

While it is true that 1970s electronics had a greater emphasis on switches and knobs, your display of Marantz receivers from the 1970s indicates an even more important trend at the time - a massive increase in available power.

Yes the demand for more power in those times closely tracked the lowered speaker efficiency of many speakers then becoming popular.
The change from ported and horns to low sensitivity acoustic suspension speakers demanded big increases to equal the expected spl norm.
Tube amps of 5 to 25 watts became quite wanting with the low 80s efficiency that came into style with AR and such.

 

[tomtoo]

Dsp is the best thing that could happen to audio. At least you can tame that (x)ucked up transducers and rooms a little. Complaining about DSP is like complaining about fresh, clear drinking water is coming out of your kitchen water tap.

 

[levimax]

It depends what any given individual considers horrible, poor, acceptable, good, excellent etc.

For example read through the comments on the Adam A4V review. It has a none trivial port resonance issue at 1khz, but Amirm still recommended it because it could be minimized with EQ. However some people ,lost their minds and posted all kinds of ridiculousness.

Amir's Klippel machine is able to accurately identify FR issues of the speaker separate from the room. If you have accurate spinorama measurements like these and the speaker has a "good" directivity curve then some careful FR tuning may be helpful. If you were just measuring the speaker in the room with a MIC you would not be able to make this determination which is what some of the "automatic DSP" claim to do.

 

[MattHooper]

I hate to say it, but you could DSP any character you want.

Not every possible character, I doubt by a longshot. I’m not sure how you “dsp” a Neumann stand mounted monitor to sound just like an MBL Extreme omni.

Certainly you can fiddle with how a speaker sounds in the frequency domain. And that could be fun. But speakers sound different in some very different ways, and there can be pleasure found in how and why different speaker designs sound the way they do. IMO.

 

[Sokel]

I hate to say it, but you could DSP any character you want.

That's already done,Barefoot does it.
Is kind of fun but certainly not easy to do it home,this character has been done using anechoic data,etc.