Harman preference curve for headphones - am I the only one that doesn't like this curve?

[Music1969]

Hi all

With some incredible help from fellow forum members here (@pkane , @Robbo99999 , @dasdoing ) I've been able EQ my headphones to the Harman preference curve.

I started with my own favourite Focal Elegia and just today I've EQ'd my friends Aeon 2 Closed and HD800-S , all using oratory1990 EQ parameters to achieve Harman curve.

With all these headphones I really hate the Harman curve (please don't delete my account @amirm )

It sounds nothing like my nearfield desktop Genelec monitors (1m from my head).

I thought maybe it was my Focal Elegia but I have the same tonality when I eq Aeon 2 closed and HD800-S

A flat headphones curve sounds closer to the nearfield speakers to me.

It's possible that as I continue to tweak target curves and listen, that I end up preferring something between these 2 extremes of flat vs Harman curve - the journey continues, so please don't shoot.

Am I alone here in really not liking Harman preference curve? Like really not liking it

 

[SimpleTheater]

Yes, you are the only person in the history of the world to not prefer the Harman curve.

 

[Music1969]

Yes, you are the only person in the history of the world to not prefer the Harman curve.

(it’s probably worth noting Olive says 25% of people want more bass than the curve and 25% want more treble)

 

[pkane]

Hi all

With some incredible help from fellow forum members here (@pkane , @Robbo99999 , @dasdoing ) I've been able EQ my headphones to the Harman preference curve.

I started with my own favourite Focal Elegia and just today I've EQ'd my friends Aeon 2 Closed and HD800-S , all using oratory1990 EQ parameters to achieve Harman curve.

With all these headphones I really hate the Harman curve (please don't delete my account @amirm )

It sounds nothing like my nearfield desktop Genelec monitors (1m from my head).

I thought maybe it was my Focal Elegia but I have the same tonality when I eq Aeon 2 closed and HD800-S

A flat headphones curve sounds closer to the nearfield speakers to me.

It's possible that as I continue to tweak target curves and listen, that I end up preferring something between these 2 extremes of flat vs Harman curve - the journey continues, so please don't shoot.

Am I alone here in really not liking Harman preference curve? Like really not liking it

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...headphones-and-the-harman-target-curve.17914/

 

[Music1969]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...headphones-and-the-harman-target-curve.17914/

Thanks! Quite a few 'sounds like shit' comments there made me chuckle !

 

[Feelas]

Thanks! Quite a few 'sounds like shit' comments there made me chuckle !

Since the anatomy is a real differentiator, not liking the Harman curve isn't an issue, especially since people are, for example, hyper sensitive to trebles and just cannot go with average level in this range. I'd rather say that it'd important to know about the reference, because it gives you an anchor when comparing things.

See the discussion here to see where do the problems with lack of a universal curve stem from.

On the other hand, if nearfields (w/o any dropping response curve) are your target, then I guess the Harman is just dedicated to a different type of situation & measured in a different scenario, maybe in far field? I don't remember exactly and somebody else might step in here.

 

[dasdoing]

try this one. the bass boost on the original isn't realy natural https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/compensation/harman_over-ear_2018_wo_bass.png

 

[solderdude]

Am I alone here in really not liking Harman preference curve? Like really not liking it

No, there are plenty of folks not preferring the Harman curve. The majority of 'average' users does have a similar preference and that's where most sales are made. That ultimately was the goal for Harman to find out... what the general public preferred so they could sell headphones tuned to that type of signature. In all the research done it was also clear that not everyone liked that curve. Some preferred eve more bass, others less.
The curve has been revised over the years for that reason. One learns as one goes.

I prefer Harman-ish myself.

 

[Music1969]

That ultimately was the goal for Harman to find out... what the general public preferred so they could sell headphones tuned to that type of signature.

Makes sense, especially when you consider the number headphones/earphones/earbuds brands under the Harman umbrella... and that was even before Samsung acquired them.

 

[Sombreuil]

Also and I don't know how common it is but I tend to change my EQ a lot depending to what I'm listening to. The Harman Curve doesn't bother me when listening to folk or world music but can't stand it for techno or classical music. I also figured out that it depends of the headphones I'm using, with some [headphones] the trebles are almost painful on certain songs.

 

[Robin L]

I prefer Harman-ish + bass. So the AGK K371 is alright by me.

 

[tomtoo]

Hi all

With some incredible help from fellow forum members here (@pkane , @Robbo99999 , @dasdoing ) I've been able EQ my headphones to the Harman preference curve.

I started with my own favourite Focal Elegia and just today I've EQ'd my friends Aeon 2 Closed and HD800-S , all using oratory1990 EQ parameters to achieve Harman curve.

With all these headphones I really hate the Harman curve (please don't delete my account @amirm )

It sounds nothing like my nearfield desktop Genelec monitors (1m from my head).

I thought maybe it was my Focal Elegia but I have the same tonality when I eq Aeon 2 closed and HD800-S

A flat headphones curve sounds closer to the nearfield speakers to me.

It's possible that as I continue to tweak target curves and listen, that I end up preferring something between these 2 extremes of flat vs Harman curve - the journey continues, so please don't shoot.

Am I alone here in really not liking Harman preference curve? Like really not liking it

Relax,there is a very easy explanaiton.This curve is a average. To come to this, you need a lot of points, that are not on the average.

 

[Dealux]

Oratory EQs aren't 100% precise. You need to do some tweaking by ear too.

Edit: Generally speaking it's better to not remove anything above 10K and also don't boost anything up there either.

 

[MZKM]

I prefer Harman-ish myself.

Yeah, I don’t know if it’a due to measurement validity, or just my mood (I usually wear headphones when winding down, not getting amped up; that’s my speaker system’s job), but I tend to like a bit less bass than what the Harman curve would suggest; for sure not flat though.

The curve is a mix of seasoned listeners and general folk (after being screened and whatnot), and it’s not a surprising conclusion that those people that put 18” subs in their SUVs and blast out the neighborhood are likely to like more bass than the people that visit audiophile forums.

 

[Berwhale]

I started with my own favourite Focal Elegia and just today I've EQ'd my friends Aeon 2 Closed and HD800-S , all using oratory1990 EQ parameters to achieve Harman curve.

Many of oratory1990's measurements have side notes advising adjustment of specified bands to your own preference. Your Focal Elegia is a good example...

Have you tried playing with these bands?

 

[jfree77]

I usually EQ to the Harman curve and play around from there, saving the things I changed (and liked) to different Peace profiles.

Then I'll go and listen to each of those and delete the ones I don't like as much. Usually end up with 3-4 profiles for each headphone. Will swap between profiles depending on the album and my mood.

So basically I treat Harman as EQ default and adjust on my own from there. I rarely add bands and just use what is already there, but sometimes I do add.

It's a mix of objectivity and subjectivity that I've found success with, personally. It makes listening more fun and interactive, but the best benefit is "getting to know" my headphones better.

 

[Music1969]

Have you tried playing with these bands?

This was pointed to me but I dismissed Harman too quickly and didn't try this.

I will definitely give this a go.

 

[restorer-john]

Well, I love the sound of my AKG-702s and the older AKG-601s (as they are with no EQ). If they follow the "Harman curve", well I guess I must like it too. If they deviate massively, then the "Harman curve" is crap.

 

[Music1969]

Many of oratory1990's measurements have side notes advising adjustment of specified bands to your own preference. Your Focal Elegia is a good example...

Have you tried playing with these bands?

Those PEQ values and band types are different to oratory1990's (latest?) PEQ adjustments here:

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Focal Elegia

 

[Robbo99999]

Well, I love the sound of my AKG-702s and the older AKG-601s (as they are with no EQ). If they follow the "Harman curve", well I guess I must like it too. If they deviate massively, then the "Harman curve" is crap.

K702 is not far off the Harman Curve, just the bass is shy (like most open backed headphones), and the treble is bit hot in the 2kHz area. I've got K702 and they're my favourite headphone. If you want to see if you like the Headphone Harman Curve you can try my EQ that is based on Crinacle's measurement:

It's the only really valid measurement of the K702 on the internet currently, as Crinacle has the GRAS setup that is relevant to the Headphone Harman Curve, a lot of measurements out there for the K702 are not valid/compatible to it.

I think I read once that you don't like bass, but I might be confused, so you might not like this EQ, but I did quite a bit of critical listening to fine tune the bass in this EQ, and I rolled it off at the point that gave best bass definition combined with it not having an impact on the clarity of the rest of the frequency range....so I consider this a Harman Bass Optimised K702 EQ if you like, ha! Crinacle measured this headphone 3 times & both channels, I picked the channel to EQ that had the least amount of outliers, and it made a world of difference choosing the right measurement of his to EQ as the outliers threw off the EQ and really didn't help bring out the clarity of this headphone. If you have an old K702 with old pads it's possible that this EQ will sound a bit dull to you, I have both a new & old K702, and the old pads require less of a cut of the 2kHz peak. I'm gonna be sending my old K702 (with new & old pads) to Oratory for testing (when the new pads arrive) so until that point I think this is about as good as it gets for a K702 Harman EQ.

EDIT: and find attached the EqualiserAPO text file that is this EQ (note that the filters listed in the text file with a hash # in front of them are not activated, they are relics of my EQ experimentation, so don't activate those filters)