Gustard X16 Balanced MQA DAC Review

[Pdxwayne]

That's pretty odd, have never had this with my L30. Guess it's definitely the Gustard.

Yeah, it was the gustard....With headphones connected to L30, turn L30 on and off have very low click sound. But with L30 already on and connected to x16, turning on and off x16 would produce much louder noise to my headphones. Imagine instead of headphones and L30, my amps and subs are connected directly to x16 and I turn on and off the x16....

 

[ABall]

I checked with Topping L30 and indeed x16 on and off have pretty loud noise.

Maybe, just maybe, when I get my replacement L30, I can place L30 between my x16 and my stereo amp and subs. That way I can turn off L30 first before turn on off x16.

Any other downsides of using L30 in between, other than losing xlr usage and a few dB less in transparency?

That pretty much confirms my unit is not faulty then, I would say this now means anyone wanting to use this in front of an amp or powered speakers better watch out, I now need to sort a preamp before I use the X16, other designs will probably be far less dangerous to your woofers but overall I am gutted. I am looking for a pre but I wanted to listen to the DAC and not be rushed. I think I have read in the past somewhere that DC on the input of certain amps can actually damage the amp, I do not know if this is true, perhaps someone can confirm one way or the other?

 

[Pdxwayne]

That pretty much confirms my unit is not faulty then, I would say this now means anyone wanting to use this in front of an amp or powered speakers better watch out, I now need to sort a preamp before I use the X16, other designs will probably be far less dangerous to your woofers but overall I am gutted. I am looking for a pre but I wanted to listen to the DAC and not be rushed. I think I have read in the past somewhere that DC on the input of certain amps can actually damage the amp, I do not know if this is true, perhaps someone can confirm one way or the other?

I don't really like the idea of adding another preamp or more power strips...But I may need to go with separate power strips that control my subs separately from the x16....x16 on first, then my amps and subs....to avoid loud turn on noise.

 

[abdo123]

I am trying to determine what volume I should set the X16 to not overdrive my NAD M3's balanced input. I wish I knew what to look for in terms of input sensitivity. Here is everything that should be relevant taken directly from the M3's manual. Is anybody able to look this over and make a suggestion? I have always just left any DAC at 0.00dB but if that is over driving the M3 I would of course attenuate the output on the X16 to compensate. Any adive would be appreciated. See below for the specifications of my integrated. Thanks for looking.

PRE-AMP SECTION
Line level inputs
Input impedance (R+C) 150kΩ/500pF
Balanced Input impedance (R+C) 120kΩ/100pF
Input sensitivity, rated power 446mV
Frequency response (5Hz - 70kHz)1 <+/-0.3dB


POWER AMP SECTION
Continuous output power into 4/8Ω2 180W (23dBW)
Rated Distortion (THD 20Hz - 20kHz) 0.004%
Clipping power3 220W (23.4dbW)
IHF dynamic headroom at 4Ω +4.2dB
IHF dynamic power at 8Ω >280W (24.5dBW)
IHF dynamic power at 4Ω >480W (26.8dBW)
IHF dynamic power at 2Ω >785W (29.0dBW)
Damping factor (ref. 8Ω, 50Hz) >150
Input impedance 20kΩ / 680pF
Input Sensitivity (for rated power into 8Ω) 1.38V
Voltage gain 29dB
Frequency response; 20Hz-20kHz +/-0.03dB
Frequency response; at > 80kHz -3dB
Signal/noise ratio; ref 1W >107dB (AWTD)
Signal/noise ratio; ref rated power >130dB

Since there is a Pre-amp section, then the chances of you clipping the amp is zero.

Just put the Gustard on 0 dB (max) and control the volume via the amplifier.

 

[ABall]

Yeah this doesn't work for me, my wife can barely turn on the tv and I have a logitech harmony, a bit harsh perhaps but she won't be turning stuff on and off in the correct order. I would like to here from Gustard why they designed a product like this, if its necessary for performance then that's one thing and probably debatable but if not its shoddy, very shoddy.

 

[hmscott]

I've had and cured this several ways.

If the AMP(s) "thump" when powering up, I power the AMP's directly - not switched/triggered power-on by the "PreAMP", and sometimes I've kept the AMP(s) on all the time, unless they are Class-A.

It is more unusual for the PreAMP / Integrated amp to "thump", if so I turn the PreAMP / Integrated amp output switch to another *disconnected* output before powering on, then switch to a live output after the "thump" time has passed.

Another way is to not turn on the AMP first. Turn on the Preamp, then after an appropriate delay, turn on the AMP.

Soft-start is usually designed into the Pre-AMP, AMP, Active Speakers, I'm kinda surprised this is still an issue.

 

[hamanas]

I've had and cured this several ways.

If the AMP(s) "thump" when powering up, I power the AMP's directly - not switched/triggered power-on by the "PreAMP", and sometimes I've kept the AMP(s) on all the time, unless they are Class-A.

It is more unusual for the PreAMP / Integrated amp to "thump", if so I turn the PreAMP / Integrated amp output switch to another *disconnected* output before powering on, then switch to a live output after the "thump" time has passed.

Another way is to not turn on the AMP first. Turn on the Preamp, then after an appropriate delay, turn on the AMP.

Soft-start is usually designed into the Pre-AMP, AMP, Active Speakers, I'm kinda surprised this is still an issue.

So if I understand it...

"I wanna listen Music"
1. Turn Gustard X16 ON
2. Turn PowerAMP ON

"I wanna go to sleep"
1. Turn PowerAMP OFF
2. Turn Gustard X16 OFF
3. Turn Streamer OFF

?

 

[jsm]

you forget to power ON your streamer :S XD

 

[hmscott]

So if I understand it...

"I wanna listen to Music"
1. Turn Gustard X16 ON
2. Turn PowerAMP ON

"I wanna go to sleep"
1. Turn PowerAMP OFF
2. Turn Gustard X16 OFF
3. Turn Streamer OFF

?

If you are hearing that thump when turning both on at the same time, and you think it is the X16 causing the thump, then that is the first sequence I would try.

But you may find your AMP(s) have their own power on Thump as well. That is what I found with a couple of mono-blocks that were triggered on via the Pre-AMP (12v trigger) power on.

It wasn't the Pre-amp causing the thump, it was the Power AMP's power on causing the thump. They would click on, and then thump/thump - each mono-block powered up and thumped after the same delay.

Those are the ones that I ended up leaving powered on all the time, except when I left for an extended time period.

Hopefully, it is the x16 causing the thump, which can be cured with the proper sequence of power on.

 

[bartgign]

Hello @gustard and forum members.

I will use my X16 with a Gustard P26 in XLR mode. Do i use the X16 at his maximum volume ? What is the best configuration between X16 and P26 ?

Thanks for your answers.

 

[A Surfer]

Since there is a Pre-amp section, then the chances of you clipping the amp is zero.

Just put the Gustard on 0 dB (max) and control the volume via the amplifier.

Thank you, I did not realize this was the case. I appreciate that.

 

[gustard]

Could someone from Gustard please tell me what sort of DC offset I should expect at the output of the X16 during power off because I cannot use it direct with my amps, I get a MASSIVE shutdown thump that is very alarming for me and my woofers. I have measured the DC at the single ended outputs and it ranges from 300-900mv during a power down, one switch off managed just over 1v! Maybe this is ok with 99% of the amplifiers out there but my monoblocks are DC coupled, no capacitors on input or output but they have a DC servo. Im not looking for a work around here, I know how to work around it which for my wife isnt going to work, I just want confirmation that the unit is not faulty?
Alan

It is recommended to use XLR connection, or turn off the amplifier first

 

[gustard]

@gustard is there a reason why the analogue out specs state RCA output level is 2.0Vrms at 00dB Volume but in the review amirm puts the volume at -04dB volume to get 2.1Vrms? Why is the output level not 2Vrms at 00dB but 3.3Vrms instead? Is this the same with all production units?

Analog output performance:

Amplitude frequency response: 20-20kHz/+-0.08dB
DNR: >126dB
Crosstalk: -130dB@1kHz
THD+N: <0.00010% 1kHz
IMD: <0.0004%@-1dBFs
RCA Output level: 2Vrms VOLUME 00dB)
Output impedance 100 ohms
XLR Output level: 4Vrms(VOLUME 00dB)
Output impedance 300 ohms

The official version is changed to:
RCA Output level: 2Vrms VOLUME 00dB)
Output impedance 100 ohms

 

[ABall]

It is recommended to use XLR connection, or turn off the amplifier first

Ok many thanks, turning the amp off first is ok for me but my wife won't remember so it's not an option as I said. I will test the xlrs then, what is the wiring protocol for a balanced to single ended cable? I make them myself, normally pin 2 hot and ground negative, is this ok with the x16?

 

[gustard]

Thank you for the detailed firsthand feedback, is the X16 then an upgrade to you from your previous sound?, are you enjoying the x16 sound and x16 + MQA decoding sound?

Here are couple of playlists - I've not really spent too much time hunting for them, but after a few quests for high bit rate files I've gathered these:

MQA 352.8khz
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/ce4bdd94-24e1-410f-bc72-6ac77cd949f9

MQA 192khz
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/bd51ad45-df8a-4333-8615-d7526b80b70a

If you've found others please do share them.

BTW, I have a D90 MQA. I had been waiting for the Gustard A22 Dual AK4499EQ but the Topping D90 MQA / A90 came out first.

@gustard - I see APOS still lists the MQA option for the A22 - @gustard is the A22 MQA version still being worked on? Will it be released?
Gustard A22 DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter) – Apos Audio

I see Gustard still has inventory of the AK4499, as Gustard is still releasing new hardware with the AKM chips. @gustard how much inventory for your AKM DAC's is still available? Will you sell out before AKM rebuilds and starts releasing AK4499EQ DAC chips again? I'm happily surprised to find new AKM DAC's still being listed for sale after the 2020 Holiday Season:

GUSTARD DAC-A18 AK4499 MQA DAC Bluetooth 5.0 LME49860*6 DSD Decoder — HiFiGo
Gustard A18 DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter) – Apos Audio

And, @gustard are A18's still shipping with MQA included by default?

There is still a small amount of AK4499 in stock. Once sold out, production will stop. We have not yet received any notice when AKM will resume supply.
Currently, only X16 has obtained MQA certification, and MQA certification for A18 is in progress. Based on previous experience, it is expected to take a long time.

 

[gustard]

That's pretty odd, have never had this with my L30. Guess it's definitely the Gustard.

Is it connected via XLR? XLR connection will not

 

[Frio]

I make them myself, normally pin 2 hot and ground negative, is this ok with the x16?

In the manual there is the Menue description. Look at the point of 'phase inverting', there are all details.

 

[gustard]

Ok many thanks, turning the amp off first is ok for me but my wife won't remember so it's not an option as I said. I will test the xlrs then, what is the wiring protocol for a balanced to single ended cable? I make them myself, normally pin 2 hot and ground negative, is this ok with the x16?

1 Grounding 2 Positive pole 3 No connection (open circuit)

 

[gustard]

Hello @gustard and forum members.

I will use my X16 with a Gustard P26 in XLR mode. Do i use the X16 at his maximum volume ? What is the best configuration between X16 and P26 ?

Thanks for your answers.

XLR connection, X16 is 0dB.
X16's volume attenuation will reduce the sound quality, almost all DACs are like this, it is recommended that the DAC output the maximum volume.

 

[ABall]

1 Grounding 2 Positive pole 3 No connection (open circuit)

Thanks for this, I will re wire my cables then.