Getting back in the game

[reddavin]

Sold my NAD 2050 after college. Sold the B&K monster HT years ago. At this point, I’d like a great sounding 2-channel streaming solution for the work from home office. Looking to pair a Bluesound Node with a miniDSP Flex for the dac/outputs to a Topping PA5 amp to Fritz Carrera speakers. Pros/cons? Lossless Apple Music. Alternatives? At some point I’d like to upgrade the amp. Maybe add a sub (and figure out the balanced/rca cable issue.) None of this is in-house atm. (Cross posted on the Node thread. Sry) I’ve loved reading the reviews and feedback from this forum!
Thanks!

 

[sweetchaos]

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Bluesound Node (review) was questionable performer. I'm sure there are better streamers.

MiniDSP Flex (balanced with TRS) (review) is a great DAC/pre-amp/DSP, etc. Highly recommended for stereo with the ability to hook up dual subs (end-game type of setup).

Amplifier is Topping PA5 (review) is awesome (when it works!).
But it still has major issues, so I wouldn't tell anyone to buy it until Topping acknowledges and fixes the design.

Fritz Carrera speakers. I don't know of this brand.
I personally don't buy speakers that we haven't seen full spinorama for. There are dozens of speakers that we have measurements and we can guarantee that the performance is great.
See my 'passive speaker' recommendation thread for speakers depending on your budget.
We don't know your budget.

Upgrade to Topping PA5 is Hypex Ncore or Purifi amps.
Here's a spreadsheet (made by ASR member) of known amps, their performance and pricing.

If you get the MiniDSP flex (with balanced TRS) to connect your TRS balanced cables from your balanced amplifier, then you'll need to convert a TRS cable going from your Flex to an RCA (most likely) connection of your sub. Keep in mind, that you'll lose 15dB of SINAD by doing this, as explained by MiniDSP.

For a subwoofer, you need to know your room size, since that dictates your required subwoofer. See my 'subwoofer comparison' thread to find a sub for your needs.

Peace!

 

[reddavin]

Thank you for the feedback. Much appreciated. I have to say I’m a bit discouraged with this process. Seems like few ‘clear winners’ and lots of compromises. I guess that’s often the case. Maybe I’m too skeptical. Seems harder than it should be to find a good streamer, preamp, amp, speakers? That work well together and sound great.

 

[AdamG]

Thank you for the feedback. Much appreciated. I have to say I’m a bit discouraged with this process. Seems like few ‘clear winners’ and lots of compromises. I guess that’s often the case. Maybe I’m too skeptical. Seems harder than it should be to find a good streamer, preamp, amp, speakers? That work well together and sound great.

If I may suggest that we consider the level of audibility here. Your profile says you are 63 years old. We are essentially in the same age category. At this age we would be considered blessed if we could still hear anything above 14k hz. I personally can’t hear anything above 10k hz. My point being that as we age our hearing acuity is compromised by age related exposure. The weakest link in our Audio reproduction system may be our ears and not our gear. Go take some online available Audio testing and find out where your hearing level sits.

Here is just one example source for assessing your hearing level: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/mimi-hearing-test/id932496645


I have a few DACs. Not including the DAC in my AVR which is worse yet)

I have the Bluesound Node 2i and it is rated at 88 SINAD in the red zone. :

Bluesound Node Review (Streamer)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the 2021 Bluesound Node wired and wireless streamer and DAC. It is the next generation from Node 2i which I reviewed a while back. The Node costs US $549 and was kindly drop shipped to me by a member. In case you don't know, Bluesound is from the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I have the Schit Modi 3+ rated at 111 SINAD in the blue zone:

Schiit Modi 3+ Review (Stereo DAC)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Schiit Modi 3+ DAC. It was kindly sent to me by the company for testing and costs US $99 from the company direct. Externally there is not much that indicates the new revision of the Schiit Modi series of DACs: The back side is the same as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I have tried and tried, even sighted testing and failed to be able to hear any difference between these DACs. So be careful of chasing high SINAD levels. Yes they offer far greater resolution, but will we be able to hear it is another question altogether. There are several Threads here that discuss the threshold of audibility. Please take your time and peruse a few of them. Buying high performance equipment can be expensive and if at the end of the day we can’t hear the difference, what purpose does it serve?

Here is one thread that discusses Audibility threshold for DACs and Amps:

Audibility thresholds of amp and DAC measurements

Introduction A recurring theme on ASR is whether or not the various measured qualities of the devices are audible. In this post, I'll present some clear and visual thresholds for when those imperfections can be considered a potentially audible concern. I will not explain the basics of amp/DAC...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[sweetchaos]

Seems harder than it should be to find a good streamer, preamp, amp, speakers?

Do you mean if you’re shopping for these and you don't have 3rd party measurements like those provided by Amir (and a handful of other trusted reviewers)? Then yes it's hard. Otherwise, you’ll have most of your answers just by sticking around and reading ASR reviews.

There’s always help from ASR members like myself.

The decision on what gear to buy is only limited by a person’s budget and specific requirements. ASR made that happen.

 

[reddavin]

I mean getting all the details straight. Compatibility, connection, availability, reliability. RCA to Balanced for example. I’m afraid to do the hearing test. ?!

This forum has been invaluable! Thought at the moment. Would the Bluesound Core work directly with the Audiophonics HPA-S400ET? That would eliminate the immediate need for an additional pre. Via RCA. the HPA looks amazing. Pre could be added later. Core has high pass, low pass, sub features.

 

[MaxBuck]

I completely disagree with the above comments relative to the Node. One can certainly wire the Node's coaxial analog output directly to a power amp; I've operated in that fashion for months, until I got my Topping D30Pro DAC back (I use the D30Pro in preamp mode and use balanced output to my NAD C298 power amp).

A streamer's primary task is to make multiple streaming sources available to the user in as convenient a manner as possible. My experience with the Node and associated BluOS application is that they are essentially foolproof plug-and-play, providing superb ease of use and supporting essentially all important streaming platforms. People who look askance at the internal DAC's performance can easily add an outboard DAC, as I have (not sure I really hear the difference, but what the heck).

How did you arrive at the decision on the Fritz speakers? Haven't heard of them before. Would be interesting to see measurements.

 

[AdamG]

I’m afraid to do the hearing test. ?!

Why be afraid of this? It is going to be valuable information for you going forward. My point is that we most likely cannot determine one adequately designed DAC from another. To be weary of chasing higher SINAD. Once you understand this and the game changes in good ways for the buyer. Yes, the Bluesound node did not measure well in comparison to other DACs, but it is a solid streamer source and I bet very few of us could hear the difference. The node can be used just as a streaming source and you can then pass the unconverted digital signal to a separate DAC. There are not a lot of streamer and many of the streamers available are pricey. These are things I wish I knew before I started buying gear. Checking my hearing was an eye opener. Check your hearing and thank me later!

 

[reddavin]

@AdamG247 I will definitely check my hearing! I know I have some loss at various frequencies.

@MaxBuck I found Fritz trolling reviews. I liked his approach, quality drivers, dedication to the craft, etc. he has measurements on his web site. Other reviews have been positive.

 

[mglobe]

@AdamG247 I will definitely check my hearing! I know I have some loss at various frequencies.

@MaxBuck I found Fritz trolling reviews. I liked his approach, quality drivers, dedication to the craft, etc. he has measurements on his web site. Other reviews have been positive.

I would not buy a set of speakers without a set of measurements at a minimum, and I’d prefer data and an audition. I don’t really trust the subjective reviews and I’m not sure I would trust my own subjective ears without a true blind test or some data to back up what I think I hear.

 

[reddavin]

Ordered the Audiophonics HPA-S400ET. Hopefully, maybe. Audiophonics website works, but Citi Visa says No! Citi says it’s the vendor. PayPal would work, but that adds 4.5 currency conversion. No thank you. Audiophonics does not own a phone, so all communication is done by email. I see an order in my profile. Some sort of bank transfer/visa link forthcoming. I have 2 weeks to figure it out. That’s their backlog. (See comment about not being easy?!). Persistent

 

[antcollinet]

Keep in mind, that you'll lose 15dB of SINAD by doing this, as explained by MiniDSP.

By way of a small correction: the 15 dB sinad loss is only for inputs to the Flex, not for the outputs. (stated at the link you provided)

 

[mglobe]

Ordered the Audiophonics HPA-S400ET. Hopefully, maybe. Audiophonics website works, but Citi Visa says No! Citi says it’s the vendor. PayPal would work, but that adds 4.5 currency conversion. No thank you. Audiophonics does not own a phone, so all communication is done by email. I see an order in my profile. Some sort of bank transfer/visa link forthcoming. I have 2 weeks to figure it out. That’s their backlog. (See comment about not being easy?!). Persistent

I seem to remember a similar delay between ordering from Audiophonics and seeing the charges on my card. It all worked out fine in the end.

 

[sweetchaos]

By way of a small correction: the 15 dB sinad loss is only for inputs to the Flex, not for the outputs. (stated at the link you provided)

You’re right. I misunderstood.

 

[reddavin]

‘Final’? configuration: Bluesound Node, Audiophonics HPA-S400ET, amp BMR Tower speakers, leftover silver RCA interconnects (lol), Blue Jeans speaker cables. Is it October yet?! Thanks for all the advice, input, research!

 

[MaxBuck]

‘Final’? configuration: Bluesound Node, Audiophonics HPA-S400ET, amp BMR Tower speakers, leftover silver RCA interconnects (lol), Blue Jeans speaker cables. Is it October yet?! Thanks for all the advice, input, research!

Definitely a system to be proud of. You did your research and came up with an excellent one, and a superb value.

 

[reddavin]

Follow-up. The Audiophonics HPA-S400ET was a disappointment. It did not have enough power to drive the BMR Towers past about 90 SPL. Which everyone says should not be the case. But it was.

So, I threw money at the situation. Mid-life crisis #16. Got some used equipment from great ASR members.

New setup. Bluesound Node to Benchmark DAC3 to 2 Bridged Mono Benchmark AHB2 amps. That packs a punch! Easily over 100 SPL.

Rory at Benchmark was great. Got the Chip upgrade for the DAC3 and some xlr cables. The synergy between the DAC3 and the AHB2s is wonderful. Seems like way more gain with this setup. The balanced cables are good. Speakon speaker out, daisy-chained triggers, etc.

The return of the Audiophonics HPA-S400ET was a NIGHTMARE thanks to UPS. Audiophonics was great. UPS quoted me $600 to ship. Um. No. Easyship got it ‘down’ to $175. US customs held it 3 days. France customs held it 4 days. Many emails and re-sending documentation. Ugh. Think twice about buying international!!!! Very stressful.

Time to enjoy.