Any HDMI Preamp with Coaxial output for less than 1500$?

[Miniyouuuu]

I try to improve my 2.0 streaming layout:

AppleTV -> hdmi -> TV -> hdmi eArc ->Bluesound Node N130 -> Coax (+12v trigger) -> MiniDSP Flex Digital -> Coax -> Amp (Audiolab 9000 with 9038Pro DAC)


Pros:

• I like the sound of my Amp and it has a good DAC (ESS 9038 PRO) in the last step before amplification.
• When I start my AppleTV, the TV turns on inmediatelly. Amp takes 10secs to wake up due to 12v trigger.

Cons:

• Too many devices adding delay and jitter in the digital domain.
• Bluesound is unable to turn off the amp.

Proposed alternative layouts:

AppleTV -> hdmi -> HDMI Preamp -> Coax (+12v trigger) -> MiniDSP Flex Digital ->Coax -> Amp (Audiolab 9000 with 9038Pro DAC).
AppleTV -> hdmi -> HDMI Preamp with Dirac-> Coax (+12v trigger) -> Amp (Audiolab 9000 with 9038Pro DAC).
AppleTV -> hdmi -> AV Receiver with Dirac and good DAC-> Pre-out-> Amp (Audiolab 9000).


Didn´t found any AV Receiver with Coaxial out. Some streamers with Hdmi ARC:

• Denon DNP 2000ne doesn't have 12v trigger (1500$)
• Eversolo A8 has coaxial output and 12v trigger (2000$)
• NAD 658 has coaxial output and 12v trigger, requires additional HDMI input (2000$+500$)
• Rose 250 has coaxial output and 12v trigger (3000$)

Any ideas?

 

[zuker81]

Sounds like it’s time for the Flex HT no? I can’t imagine the DAC has any truly audible differences from your amp. Has trigger out

 

[Bloomer]

I used a SONY HT receiver for many years. Recently, I got a new TV, moved the receiver and TV to another room and began looking at what to set up with the new TV. It was a treasure hunt looking for exactly what you want. All I wanted was a set up that would pump two channel audio from my Shield and other stuff to my speakers. The details of all the combos I tried are a real mess; I'll just say what I ended up with:

Shield>HDMI audio extractor>HDMI to TV directly, Audio via toslink to DAC> Audio to Integrated amp> out to speakers.

Control TV, Shield with Shield remote. Audio with Amp remote. Really simple.

TV: LG 65in G3
HDMI audio extractor: Orei HD913
DAC: JDS Labs Atom DAC 2
Amp: ROTEL A11 Tribute
Speakers: Infinity MTS Prelude

You can buy multi input and one stereo output HDMI audio extractors. What you'd need for more devices. Only need one DAC downstream. Orei makes some, BK-401, e.g.

Took me a while to get my head around not needing a HT receiver at all. JMO but I never liked HT sound. A screen is flat, fill in the rest. Now I have a stable, solid "wall of sound" type image.

The basic message is feed HDMI into TV, use an old time audio device and ditch the AV HT stuff.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

I used a SONY HT receiver for many years. Recently, I got a new TV, moved the receiver and TV to another room and began looking at what to set up with the new TV. It was a treasure hunt looking for exactly what you want. All I wanted was a set up that would pump two channel audio from my Shield and other stuff to my speakers. The details of all the combos I tried are a real mess; I'll just say what I ended up with:

Shield>HDMI audio extractor>HDMI to TV directly, Audio via toslink to DAC> Audio to Integrated amp> out to speakers.

Control TV, Shield with Shield remote. Audio with Amp remote. Really simple.

TV: LG 65in G3
HDMI audio extractor: Orei HD913
DAC: JDS Labs Atom DAC 2
Amp: ROTEL A11 Tribute
Speakers: Infinity MTS Prelude

You can buy multi input and one stereo output HDMI audio extractors. What you'd need for more devices. Only need one DAC downstream. Orei makes some, BK-401, e.g.

Took me a while to get my head around not needing a HT receiver at all. JMO but I never liked HT sound. A screen is flat, fill in the rest. Now I have a stable, solid "wall of sound" type image.

The basic message is feed HDMI into TV, use an old time audio device and ditch the AV HT stuff.

Did you lost the ability to wake up the amp when turning on TV/shield?? I really like CEC feature of tvs

 

[kadajawi]

Some TVs have an optical output, so the extractor is optional. You can also use a pre-amp that has HDMI, like the Bluesound Node (if the audio quality is good enough for you). You can use one of the new integrated amps that have HDMI input... I heard the Technics GX70 should be pretty damn good. Or, cheaper, the Bluesound Powernode (that one allows you to add surround too while being dominantly stereo, though I'm not the biggest fan of the built in amplifier... the UcD module isn't a particularly good class D amplifier, IMHO).

 

[kadajawi]

As for the initial question:
This is my setup.
NVIDIA Shield TV (soon Apple TV because I need that surround LPCM) -->HDFury Arcana (optional, I only need it for Dolby Vision) --> Samsung S95C --> MiniDSP Flex HT --> (Audiolab 6000A --> Focal Kanta N°1) / B&W DB4s / (Harman Kardon AVR5500 --> Nubert nuWave 85). For audio streaming duties a Raspberry Pi does Tidal Connect, it is connected via TOSLINK to the MiniDSP.

The MiniDSP Flex HT is controlled via TV (CEC) and turned on by it (I don't think Bloomers setup does that), it also does surround, if you have an Apple TV 4K as source and your TV supports eARC and your cables are all HDMI 2.1. When I turn on the TV the MiniDSP is turned on by the TV. It then triggers the Audiolab, which in turn turns on the subwoofer. I can also turn off everything by turning off the TV.

The advantage is pretty obvious I guess. You have a MiniDSP anyway, so clearly you want to use one. Why not use one with HDMI input and all the comfort? If you want to add surround you can easily... either get the upcoming WISA variant and add WISA speakers, or add any amplifier / power amplifier and speakers you like. I'm perfectly mixing and matching speakers for that purpose. To add a few effects from behind you don't need identical speakers to the front. The Flex HT has a good DAC (based around the ESS ES9080Q) and at least measures well. I think it sounds good with my Audiolab 6000A and without switching back and forth (really need to do that at some point) so far I prefer the MiniDSP as DAC. You would be using your Audiolab as a power amp though in such a setup (though perhaps you could also use the MiniDSP as a DAC only and the Audiolab as an analog integrated amp...?).

You can see the MiniDSP as an AVR, without the amp modules and a much better DAC than those typically have. And as a room correction device, be it Dirac or REW based.

To be honest I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve. The Node is exactly the device you are searching. Even if there's something similar from another brand, it won't change anything else about your setup. Unless you want a digital MiniDSP, but with HDMI input. Then you could drop the Node, but such a device doesn't exist to my knowledge and you would only lose one device in the chain.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

I already have the Bluesound Node N130, and my Audiolab 9000 has better DAC than a MiniDSP Flex HT (9038Pro Vs 9080Q).
With Flex HT I could reduce the number of steps and transitions between AppleTV and amp, and Flex HT would be able to wake up my amp and turn it off.
I’d loss a bit of DAC quality and volume control but reduce the amount of steps.

For FlexHt users: How long it take between appleTv wake up and amp wake up. With Bluesound takes 15/20 seconds.

 

[Bloomer]

AppleTV -> hdmi -> TV -> hdmi eArc ->Bluesound Node N130 -> Coax (+12v trigger) -> MiniDSP Flex Digital -> Coax -> Amp (Audiolab 9000 with 9038Pro DAC)...

Yes. Not what I wanted but I can easily live with it. When I was last in the hobby 20 years ago (kids made for a detour), we used to have to switch on everything individually. All the cool kids did and drove hot cars with manual trannies.
I'm looking for an IR device that will turn on the amp with the TV via. Shield since the Rotel has a 12v in/out in it.
Should be simple to do, I'll post when I find one. Mixing HDMI with RCA's is a mess. Not sure why, IP stuff, maybe? I had everything working with a Marantz Stereo 70S but it was impossible to use RCA in directly if ANY of the HDMI were in use.

Here's how I got it to work (Shield remote controls everything):
1. Shield into CEC HDMI. Then back to TV.
2. All zone stereo ON.
3. Pre Out zone 2 into Rotel. Zone 1 won't work.
4. Find a volume on Rotel that works OK. Fix it.
5. Use Marantz to raise and lower volume fed into Rotel with Shield remote.
6. All zone stereo resets with every shut down and has to be enabled on every turn on (Helios blocking?)
So, you still use Marantz remote once after start up. This gordian knot isn't peculiar to Marantz.

It's easy to come up with some convoluted mess you'll forget in six months without a flow chart but I like simplicity.

Crazy hack. Breadboard stuff with signal flowing through a bazillion stages. I returned the Marantz and for now am living with two remotes, my "brand new" Mac MR78 tuner and the other stuff. Simple to add a good gate/compressor to make streaming movies listenable, too.

OTOH, the Rogue stuff seems nice. Happy Holidays.

 

[kadajawi]

I'm not using the streamer to wake up my system, but my TV (since I might also use the internal apps). From the point where I push the button on the TV it's about 5 seconds, until the amp emits audio 17 seconds. Though the 6000A also takes a couple of seconds. The MiniDSP starts with audio muted and keeps it that way for a while in order to protect the amp. I find that acceptable.

I'm not sure if the DAC is better on Audiolab or MiniDSP, because it also depends on implementation. I don't think Amir reviewed the Audiolab yet. In any case I think both are playing at a high level, you would have to try though.

No idea if you could take the output from the MiniDSP and put it into an analog input rather than the power input, so you could use the volume control of the Audiolab. Or if that is even worth it (though using the MiniDSP as volume control you are using digital volume control only, so at lower volume the dynamic range is limited?)

 

[Miniyouuuu]

17 seconds is more or less what Node+amp requires from my wake up order till music is playing.

Previously I had my appletv connected to an AV receiver, and only required 5 seconds.

I have fixed volume on Node (max volume), fixed volumen -10/-15dB on Minidsp ( to prevent clipping of DSP) and variable volume on amp (-35 to -10dB). All in all between 55dB for late night listenings and 75/80dB for the rest of the day.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

With MiniDSP Flex HT, I should connect TV at fixed max volume, and put my Audiolab in Power Mode. MiniDSP would have volume control.

In this case what would be better choice? MiniDSP HT RCA to power input or minidsp HTx balanced output to xlr input of my audiolab??

 

[pogo]

With digital out, but with amp: Link

 

[Miniyouuuu]

With digital out, but with amp: Link

On paper sounds great, all in one.
No reviews yet?

 

[pogo]

They will come soon. The device has only been available since this month

 

[kadajawi]

17 seconds is more or less what Node+amp requires from my wake up order till music is playing.

Previously I had my appletv connected to an AV receiver, and only required 5 seconds.

I have fixed volume on Node (max volume), fixed volumen -10/-15dB on Minidsp ( to prevent clipping of DSP) and variable volume on amp (-35 to -10dB). All in all between 55dB for late night listenings and 75/80dB for the rest of the day.

Much of that time comes from the amp though, I think.

As for the Sonoro... mh. I'm not a big fan of the UcD amp modules. I had one in the Bluesound Powernode, and the Audiolab 6000A runs circles around it. It doesn't sound good... grainy, distorted, exhausted. Shame, because I really liked the Powernode apart from that.

 

[Miniyouuuu]

I tried a Cambridge Audio Evo 150 (class D) and chose an Audiolab 9000a (class AB). Evo 150 was nice but less “alive” to my ears.

 

[kadajawi]

I tried a Cambridge Audio Evo 150 (class D) and chose an Audiolab 9000a (class AB). Evo 150 was nice but less “alive” to my ears.

I like the NAD C298, two friends own one, one of them with similar speakers to mine and it's pretty good (one switched up from an Icepower based unit from XTZ, and there is quite the difference). But I'm waiting for a Benchmark AHB2 to arrive to replace the 6000A. Will see how that one does.