Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[Tovarich007]

I don't know why some people say Ones and coaxials in general have a small soundstage , when I heard the 8361 they had a decent + soundstage

Well designed coax drivers have a very good soundstage, this is the case with Genelec's The Ones, or KEF hifi good drivers.

Of course, the Ones are studio monitors, so don't expect an ultra large but unprecise soundstage. But they fill the space much better than most other monitors.

 

[Dgob]

What was the GLM inappropriateness?

I'm a little embarrassed to share my complete naivety, but do so in the hope that it stops other novices making the same errors. I should say that Marcel actually had a zoom meeting with me a good while back and made set-up suggestions that would have saved me a lot of trouble 'had I listened'!

Ok, so I was heavily driven both by the GRADE report and the speaker performance graphs on GLM4. To this extent, I realised that by opting for "Individual EQ'" and "multi-point assessment" I could get almost ruler flat acoustic graphs for my monitors and subs. However, I was unaware that I was actually losing dynamics and the ability to achieve great imaging.

By going back to Marcel's constant recommendation - and calibrating using "Symmetric EQ" and "Single point" assessment - the dynamics and imaging just blew up. I had also increased my bass output by using the Sound Character Profiler. I did this to increase the warmth of presentation, but again affected dynamics. When I reset the Bass Shelf to 0.0 dB and (instead) reduced the High + Shelf to -1.5 dB at 100Hz, the performances became as musical and perfect as anything I have heard.

That just left the issue of my listening space itself. Here I have been helped by Lukas at GIK and, with the installation of B4 panel on the rear wall behind my listening position and 244 panels at the first and second reflection points on my side walls, I am there!! A 242 cloud would be the final suggested option, but I just do not feel I need it. I am very happy!!

 

[GameAudioPen]

I tried other professional monitors where the noise was conspicuous. I cannot hear any hiss or self noise on the Genelecs. Proper engineering.

As for the second part, Amir and many other professional hifi assessors strongly favour active. Having moved from Revel passive monitors driven by a stereo pair of Benchmark AHB2 amps to the active Genelecs, I fully agree.

thanks, that's reassuring, hesitated to get into active again since a few cheaper ones I tried previously has some notable noise.

My only concern left now is that if I am ever to transition from a 2.2 to a 7.2.2 set up... that's gonna be a lot of power cables everywhere with Genelec XD

 

[staticV3]

My only concern left now is that if I am ever to transition from a 2.2 to a 7.2.2 set up... that's gonna be a lot of power cables everywhere with Genelec XD

Not if you use Genelec's PoE+ powered models
They get power and data from a single Ethernet cable.
Link: https://www.genelec.com/smart-ip#cmscontent_INSTANCE_JkmA7VBo1OEk-compare-column-view

 

[GameAudioPen]

Not if you use Genelec's PoE+ powered models
They get power and data from a single Ethernet cable.
Link: https://www.genelec.com/smart-ip#cmscontent_INSTANCE_JkmA7VBo1OEk-compare-column-view

4436A might actually be what I needed for my ceiling.....

However, dig deeper, I don't think this work with GLM?

Seems more like a commercial ambient space audio application than an audio room application.

 

[mkt]

I'm a little embarrassed to share my complete naivety, but do so in the hope that it stops other novices making the same errors. I should say that Marcel actually had a zoom meeting with me a good while back and made set-up suggestions that would have saved me a lot of trouble 'had I listened'!

Ok, so I was heavily driven both by the GRADE report and the speaker performance graphs on GLM4. To this extent, I realised that by opting for "Individual EQ'" and "multi-point assessment" I could get almost ruler flat acoustic graphs for my monitors and subs. However, I was unaware that I was actually losing dynamics and the ability to achieve great imaging.

By going back to Marcel's constant recommendation - and calibrating using "Symmetric EQ" and "Single point" assessment - the dynamics and imaging just blew up. I had also increased my bass output by using the Sound Character Profiler. I did this to increase the warmth of presentation, but again affected dynamics. When I reset the Bass Shelf to 0.0 dB and instead reducing the High + Shelf to -1.5 dB at 100Hz, the performances became as musical and perfect as anything I have heard.

That just left the issue of my listening space itself. Here I have been helped by Lukas at GIK and the installation of B4 panel on the rear wall behind my listening position and 244 panels at the first and second reflection points on my side walls, I am there!! A 242 cloud would be the final option for my needs, but I just do not feel I need it. I am happy.

Thanks! That's super helpful. I've read that Genelec folks were able to add manual tweaks that helped. I just changed my Sound Character Profiler which had a low shelf boost too. I have a multichannel setup and am not so sure about the Symmetric EQ, but it's worth a try.

 

[bo_knows]

I'm a little embarrassed to share my complete naivety, but do so in the hope that it stops other novices making the same errors. I should say that Marcel actually had a zoom meeting with me a good while back and made set-up suggestions that would have saved me a lot of trouble 'had I listened'!

Ok, so I was heavily driven both by the GRADE report and the speaker performance graphs on GLM4. To this extent, I realised that by opting for "Individual EQ'" and "multi-point assessment" I could get almost ruler flat acoustic graphs for my monitors and subs. However, I was unaware that I was actually losing dynamics and the ability to achieve great imaging.

By going back to Marcel's constant recommendation - and calibrating using "Symmetric EQ" and "Single point" assessment - the dynamics and imaging just blew up. I had also increased my bass output by using the Sound Character Profiler. I did this to increase the warmth of presentation, but again affected dynamics. When I reset the Bass Shelf to 0.0 dB and instead reducing the High + Shelf to -1.5 dB at 100Hz, the performances became as musical and perfect as anything I have heard.

That just left the issue of my listening space itself. Here I have been helped by Lukas at GIK and the installation of B4 panel on the rear wall behind my listening position and 244 panels at the first and second reflection points on my side walls, I am there!! A 242 cloud would be the final option for my needs, but I just do not feel I need it. I am happy.

IMHO, we had a long-running thread about treating the first point reflection on the side walls when using coaxial speakers (Genelec and KEF), and Amir's (backed up by science) recommendation was that this is not needed. I took his advice and removed all absorbing panels on my first reflection points on the side wall and it made an amazing difference to the sound stage, imaging, and timbre accuracy. I understand that every room is different and so is the proximity to the side walls but feel a need to share my experience. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Newman]

By going back to Marcel's constant recommendation - and calibrating using "Symmetric EQ" and "Single point" assessment - the dynamics and imaging just blew up.

I could have told you that, just from reading Toole. Above 300-500 Hz, we respond to the direct sound as a distinct entity, so (assuming your speakers are matched) it would be undesirable to give them different EQs in those frequencies. Even the phantom centre would start moving around depending on the frequency. Other stereo illusions would also suffer.

Even very small room asymmetries will change the frequency response measured at the listening seat, for example a seat or shelf. Auto EQ systems are notorious for trying to compensate for this at frequencies where we are mostly responding to the direct sound, so room asymmetries are better left alone. Our individualised tweaking needs to do the same.

That’s why the Genelec website says the same.

I have a multichannel setup and am not so sure about the Symmetric EQ, but it's worth a try.

My comment above applies just as much to MCH as to 2-channel.

IMHO, we had a long-running thread about treating the first point reflection on the side walls when using coaxial speakers (Genelec and KEF), and Amir's (backed up by science) recommendation was that this is not needed.

It is no different for coaxials than for any other forward-firing speaker. As Toole explains, the research demonstrates that the inadequacies of 2-channel playback are so great that first-reflections from sidewalls are preferred because they help with the missing sense of envelopment and apparent source width. However, with MCH it is more the opposite: the speakers alone can provide better spatial effects than side walls can do, so leaving side wall reflections unattenuated might actually interfere with the spatial effectiveness of the speakers alone.

Cheers

 

[mkt]

I could have told you that, just from reading Toole. Above 300-500 Hz, we respond to the direct sound as a distinct entity, so (assuming your speakers are matched) it would be undesirable to give them different EQs in those frequencies. Even the phantom centre would start moving around depending on the frequency. Other stereo illusions would also suffer.

Even very small room asymmetries will change the frequency response measured at the listening seat, for example a seat or shelf. Auto EQ systems are notorious for trying to compensate for this at frequencies where we are mostly responding to the direct sound, so room asymmetries are better left alone. Our individualised tweaking needs to do the same.

That’s why the Genelec website says the same.

My comment above applies just as much to MCH as to 2-channel.

It is no different for coaxials than for any other forward-firing speaker. As Toole explains, the research demonstrates that the inadequacies of 2-channel playback are so great that first-reflections from sidewalls are preferred because they help with the missing sense of envelopment and apparent source width. However, with MCH it is more the opposite: the speakers alone can provide better spatial effects than side walls can do, so leaving side wall reflections unattenuated might actually interfere with the spatial effectiveness of the speakers alone.

Cheers

I had not realized that the Symmetric EQ option was not really symmetric. I will have to check what happens to the time of flight delays.

When the “Symmetric EQ” option is used with AutoCal2, individual parametric filters are nevertheless applied below 300 Hz

 

[Dgob]

IMHO, we had a long-running thread about treating the first point reflection on the side walls when using coaxial speakers (Genelec and KEF), and Amir's (backed up by science) recommendation was that this is not needed. I took his advice and removed all absorbing panels on my first reflection points on the side wall and it made an amazing difference to the sound stage, imaging, and timbre accuracy. I understand that every room is different and so is the proximity to the side walls but feel a need to share my experience. Your mileage may vary.

Fascinating. I never saw the noted thread, but I can only confirm that bass definition and all around clarity and definition took a huge leap forward with the room treatments (something that is also suggested by the scores of professional sound engineers, master engineers and musicians who use these extensively in their Genelec based studios). I agree that the issues are always going to be room dependent. However, following full assessment and calibration, my Genelec produced GRADE report also recommended my use of acoustic treatment.

 

[Dgob]

I just saw this. Hope it proves helpful for others:

 

[srrxr71]

Well designed coax drivers have a very good soundstage, this is the case with Genelec's The Ones, or KEF hifi good drivers.

Of course, the Ones are studio monitors, so don't expect an ultra large but unprecise soundstage. But they fill the space much better than most other monitors.

I first heard them almost 20 feet apart. They filled the space beautifully.

 

[srrxr71]

I could have told you that, just from reading Toole. Above 300-500 Hz, we respond to the direct sound as a distinct entity, so (assuming your speakers are matched) it would be undesirable to give them different EQs in those frequencies. Even the phantom centre would start moving around depending on the frequency. Other stereo illusions would also suffer.

Even very small room asymmetries will change the frequency response measured at the listening seat, for example a seat or shelf. Auto EQ systems are notorious for trying to compensate for this at frequencies where we are mostly responding to the direct sound, so room asymmetries are better left alone. Our individualised tweaking needs to do the same.

That’s why the Genelec website says the same.

My comment above applies just as much to MCH as to 2-channel.

It is no different for coaxials than for any other forward-firing speaker. As Toole explains, the research demonstrates that the inadequacies of 2-channel playback are so great that first-reflections from sidewalls are preferred because they help with the missing sense of envelopment and apparent source width. However, with MCH it is more the opposite: the speakers alone can provide better spatial effects than side walls can do, so leaving side wall reflections unattenuated might actually interfere with the spatial effectiveness of the speakers alone.

Cheers

I don’t think GLM EQs above 500Hz anyway though. Even if it did now I would know to remove it.

 

[mkt]

Perhaps only of interest to me, I noticed that in a multichannel set up that the non-symmetric speakers (e.g., fronts vs. rears vs. heights) automatically go into different calibration groups of pairs which makes sense to me.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn055a4v/4n0OJM4XnK02NMevlIpMAu/2218fa67a174290eef40473d14343c1b/GLM4_System_Operating_Manual_2022-05-16_FINAL.pdf

 

[srrxr71]

I’ve been using individual EQ but single point. Now i’m tempted to try symmetric especially because my setup is basically symmetric. The side walls are about 15 feet away on both sides.


Also I just checked my GRADE report. No correction at all above 250Hz.

 

[cl516]

I’ve made another change to my system, so this deserves another post. (Long story short, I had initially bought 8351’s and then paid the difference to upgrade to 8361’s. But because I caught the dealer’s weekend fire sale, they price matched and offered me money back. I kept it as store credit and ordered a 2X6SE as a second module in my Symphony I/O Mk2. This module has a dedicated XLR AES Output.)

So for the first two weeks, the Symphony I/O sent its analog output to the SSL X-Desk, which then fed the 8361’s. The sound was already amazing, great phantom center image, wide stage, great clarity and revealing. But I knew in this chain, the monitoring section of the mixer was still involved; noise was probably being masked, and inevitably the signal still travelled through the X-Desk’s electronics.

Then the 2X6SE module arrived a few days ago, along with a pair Mogami Platinums. It’s really hard to describe this, but the sound was EVEN more clear. And that clarity convinces me the image is even wider, more detailed. I’m not saying that the Digital Input is objectively better, but for my setup and the equipment involved, I prefer the AES in for listening.

I’ve setup Group Presets using GLM app so I can quickly switch from Digital Stereo to Digital Mono (Summed) or to Analog Stereo. I still need to switch back to Analog In when I’m using the hardware synths.

I now also have a 9310B volume knob, and the experience is much better for me than clicking the volume slider on the app. Inevitably, before the 9310B arrived, I clicked on max volume by accident - that was certainly shocking. The 8361’s roared like you wouldn’t believe, I was sweating profusely. With the 9310B connected now, the knob overrides the app - it always controls the speakers themselves, so I feel safe.

I’m the Composer and Lead Sound Designer for an upcoming battle royale game, and I have work due and deadlines every two three days. I can safely say these 8361A’s have already earned my trust. Whether it’s sound FX or short loops or whatever, work has definitely gotten faster since I got involved with Genelec Ones.

Last but not least, yes I did the GLM calibration, no I don’t have the need or space for subwoofer. Previous monitors from newest to oldest: Genelec 8040, Adam S3A, and original Dynaudio BM6A’s.

 

[GameAudioPen]

Where would someone need to look or talk to, in order obtain such magic as "Genelec fire sale" one spoke of?

 

[cl516]

Studio Economik has specials and weekend only sales all the time. (I’m not affiliated with them.)

 

[Ilkka Rissanen]

4436A might actually be what I needed for my ceiling.....

However, dig deeper, I don't think this work with GLM?

Seems more like a commercial ambient space audio application than an audio room application.

Our 4400 series monitors do not work with GLM but they have their own Smart IP Manager software instead. It provides very similar room equalization features and processing power as the GLM, but without the automated room measurement capability. The installer or the end user can use an external measurement package such as REW + mic and set up the filters and other audio parameters/settings manually. There is also the Smart IP Control app for tablets and phones.

Smart IP Manager - Genelec.com

www.genelec.com

Smart IP Controller - Genelec.com

www.genelec.com

 

[Pearljam5000]

Our 4400 series monitors do not work with GLM but they have their own Smart IP Manager software instead. It provides very similar room equalization features and processing power as the GLM, but without the automated room measurement capability. The installer or the end user can use an external measurement package such as REW + mic and set up the filters and other audio parameters/settings manually. There is also the Smart IP Control app for tablets and phones.

Smart IP Manager - Genelec.com

www.genelec.com

Smart IP Controller - Genelec.com

www.genelec.com

Can you send a pair of 8381 to Amir for a review please ?