Genelec 8320A vs Neumann KH 80 DSP with room correction for spatial audio

[scientificsound]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of spec-ing out a high channel count (at least 32, perhaps up to 45) system for a research project. The speakers will be configured as (nearly) a full sphere around the test subject (in a fixed position) at a radius of about 1.5 meters. I'm trying to decide between the 8320A and KH 80 DSP as my main speaker. I'll also use a sub (likely a 7360A or KH 75 DSP, depending on which brand we go with), but the crossover will be kept as low as possible so the full range of the human voice can be rendered on the main speakers.

We'll be using various spatialization techniques (ambisonics, vbap, etc., as well as direct channel playback), and the tests will predominantly consist or speech in "acoustically difficult" noisy environments, so I'd like for the response to be as clean and flat as possible. I will try to make the room as physically uniform as possible via heavy acoustic curtains in a cylinder around the speakers, but I would also like to use the room correction features to calibrate each speaker, particularly due to variations between the speaker rings at different heights.

From what I've read here, the KH 80 seem like the better speakers for this situation... except for the room MA-1 software. The consensus seems to be that it's buggy, plus from the documentation, I don't think it will support more than a 7.1.4 system. That said, i did find this KH tool referenced in another post on this forum, which looks like it would pair well with REW, but I'm a bit hesitant to build this system to depend on an officially unsupported open source tool.

On the other hand, the Genelec + GLM combo seems to be used widely in spatial audio research and the manual as well as some of the photos in the link suggest that such a setup should be possible. I'm a bit worried about the sound quality/coloration of the speakers and the potential "black box" nature of the software, although I guess REW could also be used in this case as well to tweak further tweak the filters.

I was l also considering using the new room EQ in RME's TotalMix together with REW to add room correction at the interface level, but that seems to be limited to 20 channels, so unfortunatley that's a non-starter.

I've been digging through this forum for a bit now and have found lots of discussion about the two speakers, but nothing about their use in high channel count spatial audio. Does anyone have any experience with such a setup - particularly with using the GLM, MA-1, or KH tool software for room correction? Will they be able to work w/ 32+ speakers, or perhaps I could just calibrate each speaker one at a time somehow? Or are there any other options or considerations that I'm missing?

thanks!
-eric

 

[dagfinn]

200 Genelec speakers drive SCUT research project - Genelec.com

Any academic audio research project needs loudspeakers that are able to provide reliable, accurate and totally consistent performance. So when SCUT (South China University of Technology) created a multi-channel experimental system to study architectural acoustics, Genelec was the natural choice.

www.genelec.com

 

[holdingpants01]

In this regard GLM is the way to go, MA-1 is too basic. In GLM you can setup and instantly switch between Dolby Atmos, Dolby Atmos Music, Auro-3D, 360 Reality Audio, MPEG-H Audio, 22.2, DTS:X, ITU-R, plus all of the 5.1, 7.1 etc variants. The amount of possible speakers vary in each format, but when I create "huge" setup there's more than 64 slots for single speakers. What's more interesting however is that you could add 9320a controller and adjust the volume, change presets, change setup formats, mute etc. at single turn or click. This thing also allows for headphones monitoring with speaker virtualization, and have GLM calibration kit built in

 

[holdingpants01]

200 Genelec speakers drive SCUT research project - Genelec.com

Any academic audio research project needs loudspeakers that are able to provide reliable, accurate and totally consistent performance. So when SCUT (South China University of Technology) created a multi-channel experimental system to study architectural acoustics, Genelec was the natural choice.

www.genelec.com

as impressive as it is, they used 8010 model which doesn't even come with SAM, so the whole setup and calibration was done by a third party and they could use any other active speaker, there's nothing specific to Genelec to it

 

[dagfinn]

as impressive as it is, they used 8010 model which doesn't even come with SAM, so the whole setup and calibration was done by a third party and they could use any other active speaker, there's nothing specific to Genelec to it

Except speakers. Anyway, if I was doing anything this size, I'd contact Genelec and whoever other interesting producer and hear how they can contribute.
They probably have some experience and advice. I'm guessing not a lot of us has done stuff like this.

Bang & Olufsen Chooses Genelec for Its Virtual Reality Laboratory - Genelec.com

Danish electronics pioneer Bang & Olufsen has chosen Genelec SAM monitors to equip its new laboratory, which allows researchers at B&O’s Struer headquarters to create hyper-accurate simulations of how loudspeakers will sound in any given environment.

www.genelec.com

"The integration of SAM monitors with Genelec’s own GLM software was central to the project, he continues: “It’s super convenient because you can update filters, select and mute individual speakers, group them, and control the volume of all of them at the same time. It’s easy to try different set-ups at the click of a button."

 

[holdingpants01]

Except speakers. Anyway, if I was doing anything this size, I'd contact Genelec and whoever other interesting producer and hear how they can contribute.
They probably have some experience and advice. I'm guessing not a lot of us has done stuff like this.

Bang & Olufsen Chooses Genelec for Its Virtual Reality Laboratory - Genelec.com

Danish electronics pioneer Bang & Olufsen has chosen Genelec SAM monitors to equip its new laboratory, which allows researchers at B&O’s Struer headquarters to create hyper-accurate simulations of how loudspeakers will sound in any given environment.

www.genelec.com

"The integration of SAM monitors with Genelec’s own GLM software was central to the project, he continues: “It’s super convenient because you can update filters, select and mute individual speakers, group them, and control the volume of all of them at the same time. It’s easy to try different set-ups at the click of a button."

To have SAM GLM integration you need SAM model, 8010 are not supported, 8320 are. TBH I wouldn't suggest going with any analog only model regardless of the brand

 

[dagfinn]

To have SAM GLM integration you need SAM model, 8010 are not supported, 8320 are. TBH I wouldn't suggest going with any analog only model regardless of the brand

"and utilises a network of thirty-five Genelec 8320 monitors, five 8331 three way coaxial monitors from The Ones series,"

 

[holdingpants01]

"and utilises a network of thirty-five Genelec 8320 monitors, five 8331 three way coaxial monitors from The Ones series,"

I don't really know what's your point as I was obviously referring to your first link, I'm not going to engage further

 

[holdingpants01]

BTW you can't calibrate single or odd number of speakers in MA-1 software, it's really basic. On the other hand bass management with such big setups is not really possible in Neumann and GLM as well, you'll need third party solution anyway. You can set the filters etc. but can't connect all of them through one sub as there's not enough inputs