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Genelec 8030c vs Revel M105 vs JBL 308

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#1
Can someone enlighten me? Based on the measurements here it seems that the genelecs are better by quite a margin. However there have been some posts about the limitations on maximum volume. I also listed the JBL 308s as they also have good measurements and I want to know the difference in spl between them and the genelecs. If used for home theater which would be better? If used for 2 channel? Would there be disadvantages going active as I have to use xrlr to rca? Listening position is about 8 to 10 feet away. Pricewise JBL is cheaper although way overpriced in my country. Revels are the most expensive and somewhat overpriced. Genelecs seem to be comparable to US prices and is a good deal pricewise in my country.
 

abdo123

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#2
how loud are you planing to listen?

basically have a look at the distortion graphs, the lower the distortion at higher volume (94 dB) the more you will be able to push the speaker louder.

Just because the other speakers have no output limiters doesn't mean they will sound good up to and above the volume the Genelecs can produce.

As for home theater vs stereo music there isn't really a difference. what you appreciate in one will translate to the other.
 

Sancus

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#3
The 8030C play the loudest and cleanest of all those speakers with a sub crossed at 100hz. The reviews assume no sub, and Genelecs are designed to have the maximum possible extension at reasonable levels, so they usually can't handle being pushed below 100hz very well. If you compare the 96dB SPL distortion for each speaker(8030C, M105, 308P) you can see that above 100hz, the 8030C perform the best by quite a lot.

That said, 8-10 feet distance HT is pretty tough for any of these speakers, they're quite small and/or low power. You likely will need to keep your AVR volume at -10dB or below depending on how loud the material is. Personally I would(and have...) gone larger than that for HT, but it's really down to your expectations.
 
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Thread Starter #4
The 8030C play the loudest and cleanest of all those speakers with a sub crossed at 100hz. The reviews assume no sub, and Genelecs are designed to have the maximum possible extension at reasonable levels, so they usually can't handle being pushed below 100hz very well. If you compare the 96dB SPL distortion for each speaker(8030C, M105, 308P) you can see that above 100hz, the 8030C perform the best by quite a lot.

That said, 8-10 feet distance HT is pretty tough for any of these speakers, they're quite small and/or low power. You likely will need to keep your AVR volume at -10dB or below depending on how loud the material is. Personally I would(and have...) gone larger than that for HT, but it's really down to your expectations.
Thanks. I didnt know that the genelecs play louder and cleaner. I thought the revels would cause they are passive. Isnt 8 to 10 feet normal listening distances? I dont know about the loudness that I need but I currently use old energy c-3's (as http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/energy_c3.htm) fronts or usher x-719s and an old Infinity primus Pc351 as center. They are with an adire audio tempest 15 in a 122 liter sealed cabinet and a kicker Solobaric L7S10 DVC4 sub L-ported tuned to 23hz. Footprint is 14"X14". height is 4 feet 6" more or less. The subs are crossed over at 80 hz and I find the maximum loudness to be room shaking when testing with war of the worlds. Peaks were tamed with a behringer feedback destroyer but I currently am not using it now.

What are the recommended speakers based on "would have gone larger than that for ht"? But based on your above statement that genelecs are louder and cleaner than the revel m105 and the jbl 308 then I am currently prefering the genelecs. I thought that they do not get as loud and are more appropriate for nearfield applications.
 

q3cpma

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#5
Thanks. I didnt know that the genelecs play louder and cleaner. I thought the revels would cause they are passive. Isnt 8 to 10 feet normal listening distances? I dont know about the loudness that I need but I currently use old energy c-3's (as http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/energy_c3.htm) fronts or usher x-719s and an old Infinity primus Pc351 as center. They are with an adire audio tempest 15 in a 122 liter sealed cabinet and a kicker Solobaric L7S10 DVC4 sub L-ported tuned to 23hz. Footprint is 14"X14". height is 4 feet 6" more or less. The subs are crossed over at 80 hz and I find the maximum loudness to be room shaking when testing with war of the worlds. Peaks were tamed with a behringer feedback destroyer but I currently am not using it now.

What are the recommended speakers based on "would have gone larger than that for ht"? But based on your above statement that genelecs are louder and cleaner than the revel m105 and the jbl 308 then I am currently prefering the genelecs. I thought that they do not get as loud and are more appropriate for nearfield applications.
The KH120A might get a bit louder, as they use a bigger tweeter with a lower crossover frequency and probably a bit more horn loading.
 
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Thread Starter #6
The KH120A might get a bit louder, as they use a bigger tweeter with a lower crossover frequency a probably a bit more loading.
Unfortunately, the KH120s are not yet reviewed here and neumanns are overpriced in my country. Not as much as the jbl overprice though. The genelecs cost about the same with US online like bh and sweetwater.
 

Sancus

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Thanks. I didnt know that the genelecs play louder and cleaner. I thought the revels would cause they are passive. Isnt 8 to 10 feet normal listening distances? I dont know about the loudness that I need but I currently use old energy c-3's (as http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/energy_c3.htm) fronts or usher x-719s and an old Infinity primus Pc351 as center.

What are the recommended speakers based on "would have gone larger than that for ht"? But based on your above statement that genelecs are louder and cleaner than the revel m105 and the jbl 308 then I am currently prefering the genelecs. I thought that they do not get as loud and are more appropriate for nearfield applications.
It's normal listening distance for HiFi, but the genelecs and jbl are nearfield monitors. In any case, based on the Soundstage measurements, I'd say the 8030C should play about the same SPL as those Energy speakers. Considering that center is a 3-way with dual woofers, I suspect it plays louder but hard to be sure without measurements.

Usually I suggest larger bookshelves or floorstanders for HT, like the Revel F206, Genelec 8350A or Kef R3(which is also nice since you can get an excellent matching coaxial center), however those are more expensive, and I haven't paid too much attention to farfield stuff around the 8030C price point. I use Genelec 8351Bs myself at 2 meters.

If you're happy with your current system's output the 8030C probably won't reduce it, unless you replace the center as well, in which case it might but it's hard to be sure.
 
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Thread Starter #8
It's normal listening distance for HiFi, but the genelecs and jbl are nearfield monitors. In any case, based on the Soundstage measurements, I'd say the 8030C should play about the same SPL as those Energy speakers. Considering that center is a 3-way with dual woofers, I suspect it plays louder but hard to be sure without measurements.

Usually I suggest larger bookshelves or floorstanders for HT, like the Revel F206, Genelec 8350A or Kef R3(which is also nice since you can get an excellent matching coaxial center), however those are more expensive, and I haven't paid too much attention to farfield stuff around the 8030C price point. I use Genelec 8351Bs myself at 2 meters.

If you're happy with your current system's output the 8030C probably won't reduce it, unless you replace the center as well, in which case it might but it's hard to be sure.
Thanks. I plan to go same lcr in the future. I am leaning towards the genelec 8030c now. Unfortunately, the revel m105 price is the maximum I could go. I lusted after revels and thought it as my endgame. Spent a lot of time during my 20 years audio hobby on objectivist sites like audio critic, audioholics, soundstage etc and even read toole's book even if I don't understnd a lot. I got the energy as a poor man's revel. Good measurements for the price. Now with audiosciencereview gear lust has increased and there are lots of choices for end game especially if I go active like the dutch and dutch. But that is for the future. I am currently looking for a great destination that costs not as much in this audio journey. I will decide in two days cause it will still be ordered and will arrive in 8 to 10 weeks.
 
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Thread Starter #9
I forgot to ask what is the difference of them being nearfield monitors as opposed to hifi speakers?
 

Sancus

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Thanks. I plan to go same lcr in the future. I am leaning towards the genelec 8030c now. Unfortunately, the revel m105 price is the maximum I could go. I lusted after revels and thought it as my endgame. Spent a lot of time during my 20 years audio hobby on objectivist sites like audio critic, audioholics, soundstage etc and even read toole's book even if I don't understnd a lot. I got the energy as a poor man's revel. Good measurements for the price. Now with audiosciencereview gear lust has increased and there are lots of choices for end game especially if I go active like the dutch and dutch. But that is for the future. I am currently looking for a great destination that costs not as much in this audio journey. I will decide in two days cause it will still be ordered and will arrive in 8 to 10 weeks.

I forgot to ask what is the difference of them being nearfield monitors as opposed to hifi speakers?
Well I don't know pricing in your country but Revels tend to be overpriced anywhere at list because they have extra margin built-in for dealers, so you can often negotiate lower prices, whereas Genelecs are fixed price unless you are a big buyer with a good dealer relationship. Nearfield just means they're designed for listening close, you can still use them farther away, they just aren't necessarily designed for high output at long distances.

I didn't spend a lot of time looking, but in the index there aren't really many good speakers at this price point that will play louder it seems like. The only one I could see was the Revel F35. It's not too surprising because very few floorstanders have been reviewed.

In any case, I think you'll be pretty happy with the 8030C.
 

richard12511

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#11
I actually own all 3, and I even did a blind listening test between all 3 last August :D. Blind test was with just 2 people, and a 20ish song playlist.
Overall preference from the test was 8030c > M105 > 308p. There were (iirc) only 2 or 3 songs where both people preferred the M105 over the 8030c.

This also aligns with my overall preference after living with all for a couple years now.

What kind of music do you listen to?
 

Sancus

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#13
That must be a local thing though as in Europe Genelecs are not fixed price like for example B&W loudspeakers, for example 518€ vs. 647€ list price at Europe's biggest music equipment store https://www.thomann.de/de/genelec_8030_cp.htm
I'm not sure about Europe, but in Canada and the US I've not heard of very much flexibility on pricing. Retailers do vary a little bit on price, generally under 5%. I managed to negotiate about 10% off list price at the time for my 8351Bs and from what I've heard from US buyers this is basically unheard of and short of big budget customers, nobody ever discounts Genelec by even that much, let alone more.

I'm not sure how big the available discounts actually are on Revels, maybe @richard12511 knows more about that.
 

thewas

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#14
Discounts here are also quite small as the margins in the pro segment are usually smaller, still something different to some Hifi manufacturers here that dictate their list prices to their dealers.
 

dfuller

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#15
The JBL is definitely in a class below w/r/t woofer distortion than the other two, but the Revel still isn't amazing on that front. The Genelec is objectively the best of the 3.
 

richard12511

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The JBL is definitely in a class below w/r/t woofer distortion than the other two, but the Revel still isn't amazing on that front. The Genelec is objectively the best of the 3.
Actually, in the blind test I did, the JBL beat the Revel more often than the Revel beat the Genelec. There was a good separation between each, though. I do agree the Revel is better than the JBL, though.

Also, I should mention that I ran the test with the 308p on the -2 treble setting, as that's the setting that gives the slightly higher Olive score.
 

richard12511

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#17
Also, very coincidental, but I just so happen to be listening to all 3 of these speakers at the same time in my multichannel setup.

 
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Thread Starter #18
I actually own all 3, and I even did a blind listening test between all 3 last August :D. Blind test was with just 2 people, and a 20ish song playlist.
Overall preference from the test was 8030c > M105 > 308p. There were (iirc) only 2 or 3 songs where both people preferred the M105 over the 8030c.

This also aligns with my overall preference after living with all for a couple years now.

What kind of music do you listen to?
Thanks. Another point for the 8030c. I listen to metal.
 
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Thread Starter #19
I'm having second thoughts. Should I go for the 8340 instead? This is probably endgame. Genelec recommends 8340 for home theater and it is 110 db and the critical distance on their chart is more than 2 meters so i can use it near field or midfield. Is the price difference worth it?
 
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Thread Starter #20
I already ordered 2 genelec 8030c's. Although the higher max spl of the 8340 is better, my reasoning is that with my current system I don't have spl limitations and based on this thread the 8030c's have about the same or even better loudness capability then my current system. Additionally, I am confused with maximizing the sam capabilities of the 83x0 series. If in the future I choose to have an avr with dirac then the sams would not be used and I would use dirac or audyssey instead. Thanks a lot for your replies.
 
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