Heatransfer
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2025
- Messages
- 12
- Likes
- 6
Hi all,
I wanted to share with everybody an interesting speaker comparison I conducted today, and it's a totally, 100%, completely, horrendously unfair:
Revel Performa3 M105. 2-way bookshelf with 5.25" woofer ($1500 Yankeebucks, MSRP)
PSB Alpha P3 2-way bookshelf with 4" woofer ($250 Yankeebucks MSRP)
You already know the winner. As you'd expect, six times the MSRP gets you a much, much, much better speaker in every way except physical size.
So why am I posting this?
It's a bit of a thank you to Erin and Amir for posting their measurements, and as a further shout-out to Erin and his way of trying to correlate what he hears with what the Klippel machine tells him. I'll see if I can correlate what I hear, with what is measured.
Setup will disappoint any audiophile:
Source: Work PC running Windows10, Spotify through web browser, connected via docking station headphone out
Amplification: Paradigm PW-Amp (room correction disabled and subwoofer disconnected for this comparison)
Physical setup: computer speakers (ie, nearfield), on a desktop, angled up towards me. I sit about 3' away from the speakers.
This horrorshow is located in my home office, an approximately 9*10 room.
I usually run the Revels with a subwoofer and room correction engaged as the "default" setup.
Before doing this comparison I have seen the spins but haven't memorized them, so this was a matter of comparing the two speakers, noting what jumped out at me, and trying to correlate them afterwards to the spins.
The tracks were volume-matched best as possible; I ended up listening to four tracks with the Revel, switching to the PSBs for four tracks, taking a break, then listening to four more tracks on the PSBs before finally switching back to the Revels. Here are my subjective listening notes:
----
Giorgio by Moroder – Daft Punk - (electronic analogue dance music)
This is the first track I listened to, so my notes with the Revel are quite sparse, because frankly I'm used to them. The difference is room correction and subwoofer have been disabled.
M105:
Moroder has a slightly bass heavy, chesty voice (this is either a desk or room effect as the room correction eliminates this issue, which is present for both M105 and P3). Bass is definitely muted a bit without the sub, however, the bass solo 7:00 is still distinctly "there". Good drum placement and shimmer of cymbals especially in the later parts of the track.
Alpha P3:
same slightly bass heavy chestiness in voice (probably a desk/room effect as noted). The soundstage doesn't seem as big and wide. Around 4:35, the bass seems recessed. 7:00 bass solo is comparable to Revel. The attack of the guitars at 8:03 doesn't seem to be as intense. Cymbals seem ... maybe a touch less splashy/detailed.
Whiteout – Hiromi (jazz piano)
Similar to the first track, my Revel notes are quite sparse.
M105: Imaging is fantastic - there's a dance of keys being played and a clear left hand / right hand split. In quieter portions I always seem to detect a ringing about 8-10k; at high volumes this ringing is quite unpleasant but it seems to appear whenver I listen to this track - it may be the recording.
Alpha P3: the ringing is still there. Listening to this track there's a bit of distortion/hardness in the uppermidrange. Imaging seems to be somewhat fuzzier.
Royals - Lorde (pop, female vocals)
M105: noticeable, clean reverb of the lead vocals. Bass synth has good definition but lacks depth. Yes you need a subwoofer; the kick drum is barely there. There's a good "wall of sound" when the backing vocals bloom in the chorus.
Alpha p3: - The lower bass also lacks a bit of depth; the "wall of sound" with backing vocals doesn't envelop the listener as much, it isn't as big. Again, the upper midrange seems to be lacking a bit of clarity and hints of sibilance.
The Chain – Fleetwood Mac (classic rock/pop)
M105:
I'll pull an Amir here. Putting this on, I just want to turn this up. There is so much definition of the guitars, pluck, attack and decay. Oh those vocals - so beautifully harmonized. Again without a sub, the kick drums at 2:50 lose a bit of impact and the intensity of the bass at 3:00 is muted without a sub.
Alpha p3:
The sound doesn't seem as big and the vocals seem somewhat strained. The guitars seems to be resonating/a bit shouty about 3:40. The bass is less detailed and defined. At 2:45 there is loss of bass definition.
------------
For this second set of tracks, I listened to the Alpha P3 first for each of the tracks, then switched back to Revels.
Teardrop – Massive Attack (electronic downtempo)
Alpha p3:
Slight sibilance 1:15; reverb in mic is noticeable upon closer listening. The "heartbeat" has a tail of bass detail, but it's easy to miss this tail with the P3.
Revel M105:
The "static" sound texture at the opening is more noticeable, more detailed. Somehow I didn't really notice it with the Alpha, though I'm sure it was there...The M105 shows off a bit more bass definition and depth for sure. The sibilants in the female vocals are cleaner, the reverb in the recording/production is more noticeable. This is really one of those tracks that makes me stop and admire the M105 tweeter.
It's so quiet - Bjork (Jazz standard)
Alpha p3- My notes here are sparse. The P3 doesn't sound too bad at all, however, the brass instruments don't seem and feel as big and brassy as they should be.
M105- My feel is that there's a bit more definition and character in Bjork's voice. However this can't really be correlated to a frequency measurement. The band backing Bjork sounds... bigger.
Sunrise – Norah Jones (female vocal stereotypical audiophile bait)
Alpha p3:
This speaker made me think, "Wow she's miked close". There a noticeable resonance in upper voice registers - harmonies at 2:30 and 2:47 for example. It's not subtle.
M015:
Voices are so much cleaner - fewer/no resonances in upper registers. Norah Jones is indeed close miked but doesn't sound as shouty close. The segments that sounded like resonances on the PSB, sounds more like the recording microphone being loaded to distortion/clipping. It's not as unpleasant vs the PSB, if that makes sense.
Protection-Massive Attack (electronic downtempo)
Alpha P3:
There's a lack of weight in the bass; the song suffers, is unbalanced and sounds more like a female vocal solo. There's noticeable resonance in Tracey Thorn's vocals, it almost sounds like an overloaded reverb effect on the mic.
M105:
It's much better. There's additional detail, clearly audible on the cymbal. Listening to the M105, Tracey Thorn's voice is enhanced with what turns out to be production reverb/echo rather than a this weird cloud of resonances. Bass is still missing/lacking relative to what this track should be, but enough to support the track. The vocals are so sweet they just... grab the listener. The total audio balance is more pleasant.
---------
So what's interesting afterwards is correlation.
The M105's measured bass extension is no surprise and audible, though for much of the music that I listen to, the M105 is still unsatisfying without a subwoofer.
From my listening notes, I frequently note that the P3 has upper midrange resonance - shoutiness in some cases, harshness of electric guitars. I guess this correlates to the measured hump between 3-4k, probably the 1.4 kHz peak as well.
In a few cases I note that the M105 sounds bigger - its soundstage is wider. I am a bit surprised to see that the difference in 10 degrees of horizontal directivity made such a difference.
I also note a few cases where the M105 sounds more detailed - is there a measurement that correlates to this subjective observation?
---
If you've made it this far, thanks for reading, and I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about my observations correlating to either speaker's performance (especially the P3 since its deviations from "ideal" response are more substantial).
I wanted to share with everybody an interesting speaker comparison I conducted today, and it's a totally, 100%, completely, horrendously unfair:
Revel Performa3 M105. 2-way bookshelf with 5.25" woofer ($1500 Yankeebucks, MSRP)
PSB Alpha P3 2-way bookshelf with 4" woofer ($250 Yankeebucks MSRP)
You already know the winner. As you'd expect, six times the MSRP gets you a much, much, much better speaker in every way except physical size.
So why am I posting this?
It's a bit of a thank you to Erin and Amir for posting their measurements, and as a further shout-out to Erin and his way of trying to correlate what he hears with what the Klippel machine tells him. I'll see if I can correlate what I hear, with what is measured.
Setup will disappoint any audiophile:
Source: Work PC running Windows10, Spotify through web browser, connected via docking station headphone out
Amplification: Paradigm PW-Amp (room correction disabled and subwoofer disconnected for this comparison)
Physical setup: computer speakers (ie, nearfield), on a desktop, angled up towards me. I sit about 3' away from the speakers.
This horrorshow is located in my home office, an approximately 9*10 room.
I usually run the Revels with a subwoofer and room correction engaged as the "default" setup.
Before doing this comparison I have seen the spins but haven't memorized them, so this was a matter of comparing the two speakers, noting what jumped out at me, and trying to correlate them afterwards to the spins.
The tracks were volume-matched best as possible; I ended up listening to four tracks with the Revel, switching to the PSBs for four tracks, taking a break, then listening to four more tracks on the PSBs before finally switching back to the Revels. Here are my subjective listening notes:
----
Giorgio by Moroder – Daft Punk - (
This is the first track I listened to, so my notes with the Revel are quite sparse, because frankly I'm used to them. The difference is room correction and subwoofer have been disabled.
M105:
Moroder has a slightly bass heavy, chesty voice (this is either a desk or room effect as the room correction eliminates this issue, which is present for both M105 and P3). Bass is definitely muted a bit without the sub, however, the bass solo 7:00 is still distinctly "there". Good drum placement and shimmer of cymbals especially in the later parts of the track.
Alpha P3:
same slightly bass heavy chestiness in voice (probably a desk/room effect as noted). The soundstage doesn't seem as big and wide. Around 4:35, the bass seems recessed. 7:00 bass solo is comparable to Revel. The attack of the guitars at 8:03 doesn't seem to be as intense. Cymbals seem ... maybe a touch less splashy/detailed.
Whiteout – Hiromi (jazz piano)
Similar to the first track, my Revel notes are quite sparse.
M105: Imaging is fantastic - there's a dance of keys being played and a clear left hand / right hand split. In quieter portions I always seem to detect a ringing about 8-10k; at high volumes this ringing is quite unpleasant but it seems to appear whenver I listen to this track - it may be the recording.
Alpha P3: the ringing is still there. Listening to this track there's a bit of distortion/hardness in the uppermidrange. Imaging seems to be somewhat fuzzier.
Royals - Lorde (pop, female vocals)
M105: noticeable, clean reverb of the lead vocals. Bass synth has good definition but lacks depth. Yes you need a subwoofer; the kick drum is barely there. There's a good "wall of sound" when the backing vocals bloom in the chorus.
Alpha p3: - The lower bass also lacks a bit of depth; the "wall of sound" with backing vocals doesn't envelop the listener as much, it isn't as big. Again, the upper midrange seems to be lacking a bit of clarity and hints of sibilance.
The Chain – Fleetwood Mac (classic rock/pop)
M105:
I'll pull an Amir here. Putting this on, I just want to turn this up. There is so much definition of the guitars, pluck, attack and decay. Oh those vocals - so beautifully harmonized. Again without a sub, the kick drums at 2:50 lose a bit of impact and the intensity of the bass at 3:00 is muted without a sub.
Alpha p3:
The sound doesn't seem as big and the vocals seem somewhat strained. The guitars seems to be resonating/a bit shouty about 3:40. The bass is less detailed and defined. At 2:45 there is loss of bass definition.
------------
For this second set of tracks, I listened to the Alpha P3 first for each of the tracks, then switched back to Revels.
Teardrop – Massive Attack (electronic downtempo)
Alpha p3:
Slight sibilance 1:15; reverb in mic is noticeable upon closer listening. The "heartbeat" has a tail of bass detail, but it's easy to miss this tail with the P3.
Revel M105:
The "static" sound texture at the opening is more noticeable, more detailed. Somehow I didn't really notice it with the Alpha, though I'm sure it was there...The M105 shows off a bit more bass definition and depth for sure. The sibilants in the female vocals are cleaner, the reverb in the recording/production is more noticeable. This is really one of those tracks that makes me stop and admire the M105 tweeter.
It's so quiet - Bjork (Jazz standard)
Alpha p3- My notes here are sparse. The P3 doesn't sound too bad at all, however, the brass instruments don't seem and feel as big and brassy as they should be.
M105- My feel is that there's a bit more definition and character in Bjork's voice. However this can't really be correlated to a frequency measurement. The band backing Bjork sounds... bigger.
Sunrise – Norah Jones (female vocal stereotypical audiophile bait)
Alpha p3:
This speaker made me think, "Wow she's miked close". There a noticeable resonance in upper voice registers - harmonies at 2:30 and 2:47 for example. It's not subtle.
M015:
Voices are so much cleaner - fewer/no resonances in upper registers. Norah Jones is indeed close miked but doesn't sound as shouty close. The segments that sounded like resonances on the PSB, sounds more like the recording microphone being loaded to distortion/clipping. It's not as unpleasant vs the PSB, if that makes sense.
Protection-Massive Attack (electronic downtempo)
Alpha P3:
There's a lack of weight in the bass; the song suffers, is unbalanced and sounds more like a female vocal solo. There's noticeable resonance in Tracey Thorn's vocals, it almost sounds like an overloaded reverb effect on the mic.
M105:
It's much better. There's additional detail, clearly audible on the cymbal. Listening to the M105, Tracey Thorn's voice is enhanced with what turns out to be production reverb/echo rather than a this weird cloud of resonances. Bass is still missing/lacking relative to what this track should be, but enough to support the track. The vocals are so sweet they just... grab the listener. The total audio balance is more pleasant.
---------
So what's interesting afterwards is correlation.
The M105's measured bass extension is no surprise and audible, though for much of the music that I listen to, the M105 is still unsatisfying without a subwoofer.
From my listening notes, I frequently note that the P3 has upper midrange resonance - shoutiness in some cases, harshness of electric guitars. I guess this correlates to the measured hump between 3-4k, probably the 1.4 kHz peak as well.
In a few cases I note that the M105 sounds bigger - its soundstage is wider. I am a bit surprised to see that the difference in 10 degrees of horizontal directivity made such a difference.
I also note a few cases where the M105 sounds more detailed - is there a measurement that correlates to this subjective observation?
---
If you've made it this far, thanks for reading, and I would be interested in hearing your thoughts about my observations correlating to either speaker's performance (especially the P3 since its deviations from "ideal" response are more substantial).
